Hello again all, I hope that everyone is doing well.
I have a question for everyone. I have been using tapered leaders instead of staight mon for leaders for a while now. I have been thinking of “tying” my own with sections of mono, and was wondering what you all might thinkin of the idea.
Say for example I am wanting a 7.5’ (or 90") leader. Sections would be 22", 18", 16", 14", and finally 20" of tippet. I was thinking of using 20 LBS(22"), 15lbs(18"), 10lbs(16"), 8lbs(14"), and then some tippet material that would be about 6lbs in tensile strength (maybe 3X,4X, or 5X.) I am planning on just using basic surgeons knot to make a line to line connection between the sections.
I am thinking of using this technique just for the cost factor. I can get 5 rolls of mono for the price of 4 leaders, and I have enough to make a few hundred just in case I need them.
I don’t know how effective these would be, as I am mainly looking for using these for gills, and bass (large, smalls, and whites) I can handle the ugly factor. I am just wanting something that will work somewhat like a tapered leader for turning over flies.
What do you all think?? Might it work??? Am I nuts??? Think someone will give me a winning powerball ticket … sorry just making sure everyone is still awake!!!
Thanks for the help everyone!!!
Sincerely,
Reg
[This message has been edited by RCaillouet3 (edited 17 March 2005).]
Sure it will work. Long before tapered leaders came along, most people tied their own. I used my own hand tied leaders for 2 or 3 years, then finally switched to tapered leaders. There are some advantages to hand tied leaders: 1) As you mentioned, you can save some money; 2) You can tie up a taper that is more likely to serve your needs than one you could buy. One disadvantage is that when fishing in water that has a lot of algae or pond scum or vegetation, you will probably spend a lot of time cleaning junk off the knots. You can ease this problem a little by coating the knots with Plio-Bond cement or some other rubber cement or with the new Loon UV Knot Sense. One thing you need to consider is that in order to obtain the most effectiveness from your leader, you may need to purchase lines of different grades of stiffness in order to get your leader to turn over properly. The leader formula that you mentioned would probably work fine, but you might want to go a little heavier on the butt section where it joins the fly line. I have seen and used many different formulae for tying up leaders, and these are available in several books and almost certainly available on the internet.
Larry Compton
For the places we like to target LM’s, we find ANY knots to be a nusiance. For that we use a store tapered leader or a short level leader. For the more open water targets you mention, doing your own ought to work great.
…lee s.
I think your leader plan would work and in addition recommend LeaderCalc too. I also agree that the butt might need to be 24# in order to match the end of the fly line for stiffness and dia. However I personally shy away from DOUBLE Surgeon’s knots. For the stiffer part Blood knots seem smoother and for the finer end, TRIPLE Surgeon’s knots seem to come out straighter for me. Good Luck in any event.
If RC3 is thinking like I think he is, then he nor I have a calabrated eye, but can see mono in lb. strengh. He is asking a Q. that i have wondered for a long time but did not ask cause everytime the Q would get asked here, it would get explained in diameter, so I never bothered…
Spelling and Grammar not subject to judgement…
[This message has been edited by Grubb (edited 18 March 2005).]
One other thing that I think matters is the stiffness of the leader material. I don’t like the commercial knotless leaders as well as my own hand-tied leaders partly because I think the butt sections are too limp. (I freely admit that I may be compensating for possible flaws in my casting stroke. Also, I just like fooling around and experimenting with stuff when I can’t actually be on stream.)
I think the leader itself should be tied with a moderately stiff mono such as Maxima, but the the tippet should be as limp a mono as you can find. Right now I’m using Sci Anglers.
For your warm water applications, especially bass, you might try 36" of 20#, 36" of 15# and a tippet of 2’ - 3’ of 8# or 12#. While I prefer none knoted leaders I have used this formula with good success. It’s easy to tie and not that many knots. Oh I use Maxima leader material.
For bluegills, I either use a straight piece of mono or a 9’ tapered leader with a 4# tippet. Unless I’m fishing on top I tend to use a straight piece of 4# Berkley Vanish Flurocarbon.
That is an effective way, but it will get tangled no matter what. Many people tie a section of tippet off the bend of the first fly using a clinch knot. But I don’t have confidence in that method yet.
I tie my own using an Umpqua leader kit, tho I have used Climax kits too. A good rule of thumb is not to drop more than 0.002 inch between any two sections. Knot strenght is affected if you do. There are lots of good formulas out there and most work fairly well. For myself the big attraction is to be able to fine tune a leader to a rod/line. McClains
“Practical Fly Fishing” has some excellent pointers for diagnosing and tuning leaders.
AgMD
I used to tie all my own but these days I only tie my Bass leaders and nymph leaders butt to tippet. But I buy braided butt leaders about three tippet sizes heavier than I want and taper them myself to the desired tippet. At the end of the season I take all the casualties and rebuild them at my leisure. You?ll learn a lot about how a leader effects fly presentation by messing around with your leaders instead of just buying a store bought job and replacing the tippet when it gets too short. All my leaders have knots, blood knots and I like them that way!
I consider making my own knotted leaders like tying my own flies; something that adds to the fun. I used to sit up watching TV and tie then by the zillions putting little tags on them so I would know what I had. I experimented with different designs and tapers including double tapers and weight forward leaders. I even built leaders with yellow Stren, (remember that?), for the butt for nymph fishing. I kept, and still have a note book with different leader formulas I got from books and figured out from leaders I bought.
Invest in a micrometer or a decent tippet gauge and a tape measure. The old rule of thumb for a blood knot was don?t go more than .002? between sections if you don?t want the knot to slip. Also a pair of gloves or medical tape helps too because your fingers will get sore after a while. The other thing is to learn how much material your knots will consume so you can make sure the section are the length you want; it just takes practice.
Have fun, it adds to the enjoyment.
[This message has been edited by Bamboozle (edited 18 March 2005).]
I tie my own leaders. The items in my leader kit are as listed. Go with line test and it will work out OK. Using a micrometer is better and they are not very expensive, but if you don?t want to fuss just look at the chart. Some mono has the dia. listed on the spool and you can go with that.
Test Dia. Material
30 .022 Maxima
20 .019 Maxima
15 .016 Maxima
12 .014 Trilene
10 .012 Trilene
6 .010 Spiderwire (mono)
4 .008 Trilene
Sure it will work But!. Get a Furled or Braided leader and all you have to do is add Tippet. Will last a whole season. I hate tying my own leaders. I have a 2 wt that I use a Maxima tappered leader on and it lasts me almost a whole season by just adding what I need to keep it usable. I fish my 2 wt about 80% of the time.
Greg H, That Maxima is nice to use isn’t it. I use an Orvis SS for a tippet.
[This message has been edited by Pats Man (edited 18 March 2005).]
I agree with Pat’s Man, I use braided leaders. A braided leader will cost you about 10 bucks. Now all you do for the next year or two is add tippet. You can go from 10X to 1X with the same braid and only change the tippet with a loop to loop connection.
I tied my own leaders , build my own rods, tie my own flies .etc. For me the time and agravation involved in leader building is no longer worth it so I stopped. Go buy yourself some quality leaders a size heavier in tippet than what you will use, tie in a perfection loop, then loop in the appropriate size for what you are using. a leader will generally last all season . works for me.
I use George Harvey’s leader formula. They call for maxima butts and limper material for the tippet. They work way better than the store-bought tapered learders IMO - they cast better and initiate less drag. However, they are a bummer in weedy areas because the knots get stuck on the weeds.
I think maybe your formula has too much butt and not enough taper. But you won’t know until you try it. Get a few formulas off the net, tie up your own, and experiment. That’s the most fun for me - not taking another person’s word for it, just trying different things until I find what works for me.
flybugpa has a good point too. A purchased tapered leader of 7.5ft tapered to OX or 1X can be finished with 3x, or 3x plus some 4x and you are done - as long as it casts well for you.
