Rick,
Your article mirrors my philosophy on pond fish, including the “7 lbs of gills per lb of bass”. You also hit home with the best ponds being on fertile land.
Only thing I’ll add is I find myself praying there are NO (or darn few) grass carp.
Thanks for a great article.
Mike
Tuber
I agree with you on Rick’s article. Having fished with him he does practice what he preaches.
Funny you should mention grass carp. The main pond that I fish at work has them, but oh the size of the blue gills in there. Big ones, 8" to 11". But not very many big largemouths. So I wonder what keeps the gills big and the bass small?
What do you do with 7lbs of 'gill? Thats alot of fish to eat. Personally I love to eat fish and would keep everything I caught from my local lakes and ponds but the waters around here are way too polluted to even attempt it. So unfortunatly I cant help balance things out, I just cant justify catching and kill the fish for no reason. Very interesting read though. Thank you.
while i agree whole-heartedly with the philosophy on private waters, where you know exactly what is caught, kept, and when, it gets much more difficult on public ponds.
so my question is, how can i help to improve the quality of the fishing experience on public ponds? they do get fished by others, with various types of gear and/or bait, but its hard to discern the numbers vs. sizes of the fish available and/or caught and kept.
for example: there are a ton of small gills…were talking 3-5". there are also a good number of LMB, say 8-15". even a few trout in the 10-12" range. all of the fish, as you can see, are in the small to medium size range. how, then, can i decipher if this is a matter of too many little fish killing off the big fish? meaning, do i need to harvest some of the smaller fish in order to allow the remaining fish to grow? or is this more a case of all of the larger fish being taken, and only the smaller ones remaining, cause they arent “keepers”?
i would really appreciate any insight you all could provide on how to establish and maintain a more consistantly qualitative fishing experience on some of these ponds. the quantity is there, but 3" gills are only fun for a little while, with nothing substantial to folow.
ty
I think the best thing we can do is educate those other folks we see fishing. Last week I was fishing a public pond that use to have some quality largemouth and blue gills. I mentioned that to a couple of guys who were fishing and not having much luck either. One of them mentioned that they only keep bigger fish and throw the small ones back. The other asked me if the DNR had any jurisdicition on the pond. Which told me he was fishing without a license.
So I gave them my usual philosophy of how we need to return bigger fish so as to assure that there we’ll be fish to catch in the future. Then I realized I was talking to two deer looking at the head lights.
If you could get the DNR to put slot limits in the pond. The only way to get larger gills is to really get larger bass in there to eath them.
Good luck on getting that to happen.
I have had much more luck fishing the private water.
Rick
PS anglerdave when are you coming back down so I can outfish you again?
Nice artical, Rick.
On first glance, it does seem that you harvest excessivly, but I figured you knew what you were doing. Thanks for sharing your logic with us.
The thrill is not in the kill. It’s in the deception.
Rick
Haven’t been out fished in a while so I am in need of some humble pie. Maybe 23rd or 30th. I’ll be out of town part of next week so I’ll shoot you and email when I get back.
How are you fixed for olive and black woolly buggers? If your supply is low, I can bring you some. G
Rick Z,
the problem around here is that warm water species are non-regulated. there are no limits, no slots, no seasons. alot of people take advantage of that. the only time they are regulated is when the water is regulated as C&R. you can fish, you just cant keep.
Here is one way to help keep the runts culled out [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bluegill+cocktail&btnG=Google+Search:05c2a]Bluegill Cocktail[/url:05c2a] Yummy!
RRhyne56
[url=http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com:05c2a]http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com[/url:05c2a]
IM = robinrhyne@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by rrhyne56 (edited 11 July 2005).]
On the public waters in PA,C&R or not if ppl catch it they take it…as long as it’s bigger than what they are using for bait,I could’nt begin to count the numbers of times I’ve been on the C&R Flyfishing “ONLY” section of Pennscreek and seen countless “BAIT” containers,Strewn all along the banks,and not once in “YEARS” of fishing this and almost every other inch of this stream did I ever see any type of “PATROL” personnel,nore anyone State/or fed related at either of the cabin’s posted there in for PFBC use…
I can’t speak of other states but for PA atleast,There is a deffinate lack of "PATROLING/POLICEING on even the most noteworthy waters.
I’ve met quite alot of other ppl while on the water that share these views.
ppl will do what they can get away with,If one is seeking a trophy trout on the Penns…they will look far and long…
I remember a conversation with a guy from IDAHO that was fishing a run above me one eve…after a couple hours he walked down the bank and asked what the hell I was catching…I had to laugh,I was pulling out some really nice smallies on dries,he asked if he were indeed on the “Grand and wonderful” Pennscreek he’d read so much about!!..and I assured him he most certianly was,I also pointed out the Bait containers…that were left by the wonderful “White Bucket Crowd”…
I Have “NO” probelems with ppl taking fish ,so long as they “ARE” leagal fish,Hats off to Rick and all who are like him…Wish all waters were managed as to where the taking of fish were helpful/benifical to the fishery.Shame is they seem to be few and far between,“Trophies” often are!.Great article…Wish every fisher Person…could and would read it…and use the info.
“I’ve often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before” A.K.Best
“Wish ya great fishing”
Bill
[This message has been edited by billknepp (edited 12 July 2005).]
Great read Rick,
We too do not harvest LM’s. ONLY if one is fatally hooked. There are a few “bass only” ponds around here that could use some culling though! 
Bass seem so inferior to BG as tablefare, it isn’t even a conservation issue with us. 
…lee s.
Rick, you are so on with this one. So many Midwestern farm ponds have been knocked out of whack by folks who come in and simply harvest the bass. This blows the balance basically in an afternoon of overfishing. They will return the bluegill and take all the bass they catch. This might happen within the first few years of stocking and the balance is almost impossible to recapture. Proper pond management can keep a good pond going for years and years with good sized catches. My father, who tried to make everyone happy, stocked two of our best ponds with grass carp without consulting me, and now they’re basic mudholes. In both the bluegill populations have dwindled to nothing, and there are a few solitary bass left. Without the clarity, plant growth, etc., the habitat was ruined, and consequently, the fish population. In a couple of others bass hounds took a motherlode of largemouth to disrupt the balance. JGW
New member and I didn’t know any better and posted a response to this article on the general discussion board. I can see I was in the wrong place!
In Texas, and many other southern states, the problem in private ponds is most often too many bass because of following a catch and release policy. In my ponds, every bass caught under 12 inches is removed. This has resulted in large LMB, but also perhaps more importantly to me, very large BG. Contrary to Rick, I never remove the medium size BG. The larger LMB view them as their meal ticket and also they are prolific spawners. If I had too many small BG, I wouldn’t remove them, I would simply add more LMB. The BG are the key to a successful pond fishery, IMHO.
Love the site, know I will learn from it, and I hope I can contribute something occasionally on ponds which are my love next to fly fishing.
Rick
The DNR can put all the slot limits they want, but if they don’t have the wardens required to enforce them, well…
It amazes me the number of people who fish public water that do not have a license and those that do, that will keep almost anything they catch.
Yes the warden’s are way to few and far between…and I for one know that in some states it sure is’nt a lack of funds…some states are even selling species spefic stamps in conjuntion with the required Licences,Such as the PA trout/Salmon stamps…and the prices…ok I’m getting out of this now…cause you have no clue how this erk’s me…Keep smileing…lol…
“I’ve often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before” A.K.Best
“Wish ya great fishing”
Bill
[This message has been edited by billknepp (edited 15 July 2005).]
Adave,
I fished some time ago in a friends’ pond, LOTS of grass carp, huge gills & runt bass. Bob asked my opinion, so (being Irish), I gave it to him & he didn’t like it. Obviously, I no longer fish the pond, so I don’t know the end result. I think the pond may be in the fairly early stages of “grass carpitis” & it is my “opinion” (I may be dead wrong) that the next stage will be few but large bass & a real scarcity of quality gills. Other ponds I fished “before & after” grass carp followed the same pattern, so my opinion/deduction is borne of experience. I would be interested in feedback from the FAOL family.
Mike
Tuber
You just described the pond where I work. Grass carp, huge gills and runt, or as I call them cookie cutter bass. All the bass are around 12" long. Love catching the gills and I am not complaining about that, but I can’t figure out what the deal is with the bass. The only thing I can think of is lack of forage.
ohiotuber,
I’m interested in your comments on the grass carp. I’ve never experienced a correlation between grass carp and stunted LMB and big BG. We have many ponds in Texas without grass carp that have that same problem. My ponds in East Texas all have grass carp, and do not have those problems, however I do not stock the grass carp at the recommended rates and do remove all LMB 12 inches and under.
I’d be very interested in any info on this subject. Than ks.
Meadowlark,
My observations on grass carp are from seeing them introduced, supposedly in Ohio DNR recommended numbers, in weedy ponds which were fantastic gill & bass fisheries. The 3 ponds I am most familiar with have become literally weedless & the fishing has substantially declined. All these ponds are from 1/2 to probably 1 1/2 acres…maybe that’s the key, pond size.
Mike