Chris (NA) asked:
Should there be stream closures in drought conditions ???
imho, … I think anglers should be responsable. Personally, we don’t release many captures in warm/drought conditions.
If we want to c&r, we’ll change rigs to not “play” with a fish that is to be released. I’d rather have a few more refusals because the tippet is too heavy, than release a half dead trout into 80 degree water.
I think there is a difference between fishing in drought conditions, low water, and fishing in water that is too warm. Low water will tend to have fish congregated in whatever deep pools remain, and while I personally feel that is somehow not ‘fair’ and would not fish myself, even if the water remains open it is legal.
Warm water, that is anything above 70F, is a NO. Carry a stream thermometer and make the choice in favor of saving the fish - don’t fish.
Deanna, …
Good point about “pooling” fish. I hadn’t thought about that one. Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel I guess. … I do carry a thermometer… a good investment, … cheap ones go for 10 bucks. Unless you’re calculatig degree days for emergences, … imho, +/- 2 or 4 degrees doesn’t make a big difference… Warm is WARM.
Tim,
… I guess I don’t think about control problems 'cause on my home waters, the access is controlled. It’s public water, but in a controlled zone. Heck, they used to have 18+ wardens for 60km of river. (down to 5 now )
(say what you may about the old Clubs, … they did contribute towards the building of the fishery that we have today in Quebec)
Thanks, I am looking forward to how this string develops.
As far as enforcement, wouldn’t closed fishing be easier to regulate than special regs like C&R or FFO? I had suggested ( in WV )closing only C&R areas where conditions were critical. The general regs area will be “re-stocked” this fall regardless.
My fishing partner and I have decided it is now smallmouth or tailwater fishing until conditions improve.
If states want to close waters effectively, IMHO they?ll need to make an effort to educate anglers about fish mortality in warm/low water/drought conditions or too many anglers will violate closures. I also think that some of the burden of protecting against high fish mortality falls on the fly shops. Of the four fly shops between my home and work (I am truly blessed!) I rarely see stream thermometers in stock. When I finally became educated and bought one last year, I had to ask in two shops before I was able to buy one for just under $12.
I?ve also enjoyed fishing for warmwater species over the past few years and think more people should give it a try during the dog days of summer. Not to mention that even if you totally screw up and kill a sunny, they reproduce so fast that the impact is pretty benign. Even in hyper-over-developed north Jersey, I?m able to find solitude within a 30 minute drive which would be the envy of any angler.
I switch to warmwater species. I don’t actually fish for trout in mid summer anyway so I don’t subject any trout to stress of that sort. Bass, panfish, etc. are my targets of choice in the summer. I begin fishing for salmonids again in September.
Later, RW
“We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours.” -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-
Personally, I’ll not fish (trout) until conditions ‘normalize’. Meaning the water temperature falls below or the conditions meet some combination of factors.
Legislatively, I guess I wouldn’t be opposed to it if it was based on strong scientific information. A section of the lower Beaverkill is now shut down between July 1st and August 31st(?) because it is a thermal refuge for trout.
Again, personally, I find that trout fishing when the trout are stacked up is not very sporting. Additionally, due to high water temp and low oxygenation, they hardly fight and are less likely to recover after being released.
Bottom line is, unless legislated, use common sense and/or your sense of responsibility.
The last thing I want is some dummy with a thenomter runing around telling people when to fish and when not to.Stream closer should something that is off the table. I know it is done in a loving way to proect the fish, but it is a poor idea at best. most fisherman are pretty responcable let them make thier own call.
I’m spoiled; my local streams are all spring fed and never get above 60 degrees all Summer. If I get bored I can drive a little bit over an hour and fish some other spring creeks. Trico fishing is my passion so I’m glad I have the option.
I guess I am sorta lucky becuase the tail water of one river I fish gets warm very quickly in the summer but the head water in normal conditions is usaully about 15 degrees if not colder than the tail water. That water up there is always pretty cool…feels good in the summer too.
“GET THE DRIFT?”
[This message has been edited by Mike Murgida (edited 28 June 2005).]
I,like many others, avoid angling when high temperatures have stressed the fish. I just fish somewhere else. There are many smallmouth bass in local rivers etc and there are small streams that are cold through the summer.
Some guys who fish through the summer ask (justifiably)“where are the dead or dying fish?” and I don’t know what to say. I have never seen the data that substantiates the claim and I’ve never seen the dead or dying trout either. Yes, I’ve seen fish that are distressed when released in warm water but they seem to swim away ok.
In any case though, I would prefer to close the streams when water temps reach a certain value and reopen them when temperatures become less dangerous. The problem as I see it is communicating the open and close times to the fishers. Enforcement would be nearly impossible. In this part of NY there are only 1 to 3 conservation officers per county and their duties encompass many more responsibilities than the old “game wardens” had. I believe that the best we could hope for at this time is to use radio/TV to warn of the dangers to the fish and hope that the fishers took heed.
Opinions change and todays fishers are much more conservation minded than when I was young. IMHO a growing number of young fishers have the proper attitude toward fishing and the scofflaws are becoming fewer in number. We’re dying off!
It hasn’t been long since the DEC “wanted the fish out of there” as soon as the water temps got too high evidently believing that they would all die anyway. It was an easy enough job to fish darn near all of them out too! They stack up in the cooler spots and deeper holes where they are easily caught…some catches of 50 or more fish in a day are not too unusual under high temperature conditions.
Here volunteers cooperating with NY state DEC float stock our streams and fish are stocked in some stretches not easily reached by fishers. We believe that the good fall and winter fishing results from more fish making it through the summer. Almost every angler has agreed that there are many more wild fish being born. (results of on stream surveys done by a number of fishers from Hornell, NY). This we all take as a good omen!
Colorado’s answer to the drought; the population of Denver and Colorado Springs come first. When a lake is affected by a drought, and drops dangerously low, special regs come into play. The DOW allows more fish to be taken to help reduse the amout that are lost. They do, however, attempt to relocate as many as they can. Not much can be done about drought conditions, as humans water needs do come first. However, there are a lot more options for relocation that aren’t explored because of cost. So very many fish are lost due to the cost.
I donot like to fish for trout when the water is to warm or in drought conditions. I went a week ago to a stream that is in a gorge and shaded. The water temp at 7:00am was 64 deg. The water is low here in NJ.Caught two trout at 8;00am and the other at 9;30 am. both were ok as I didnot play them long. I caught one more later on and it did seem to have some distress. It was about 11:00 am and I checked the water temp. It was now at 70 deg in the shade. Call it a day.
In the past several years, Montana has closed a number of rivers to fishing due to drought conditions combined with high temperatures. The closures have been either mandatory or voluntary, with some only closed during the afternoons, but many all day and night. I have seen people still fishing the closed waters, though not too many. I certainly agree with the FWP’s decision to close these rivers to fishing for a couple of reasons: 1) the fish are too easy to catch at these times; and 2) many of the people fishing these streams are practicing catch and release, inevitably harming and killing more fish than they would in cooler weather - those who have said they have seen no evidence showing a correlation between high water temps and angling mortality must not have looked far in search of such studies; and 3) some of the closed rivers like the Blackfoot have protected species, bull trout, that deserve the added protection.
I like the idea of thermal refuges that are off limits in the summer months. I know on the Housatonic river in CT they have these and if you get busted in these areas you will get a ticket. These places are well marked and it focuses the wardens so they don’t have to cover the entire river.
I Guess it all come down to common sense and repect for the fish.
As for fish stacking up in “drought” conditions where temps might still be reasonable, … that is a personal choice as to whether the angler finds it “sporting” or not.
I agree regs would be tough to enforce on open waters. I don’t have this problem as EVERY angler on my home waters will be visited at least 2-3 times per day by one or more Wardens.
We don’t CLOSE here when water is low, … but we DO emphatically discourage the use of sinking leaders and lines (and tips). Just too easy to accidently snag a fish.
I would imagine that if stream temperatures are “right” during regular water flow, they would have to bet higher during drought conditions. One reason you don’t often see die offs is that the fish are stressed, becuase they are at the upper end of their temperate zone. The additional stress of the fight is what causes the death. High temps are survivable, as is a good fight, but its the combination that causes the problem. In most cases we don’t see dead fish floating because nature provides for all kinds of species to clean up. Birds, other fish, otters, micro-organisms etc.
When fishing in a mixed environment where there are bass and trout I find the catchng of bass increases and trout decreases as the water temps approach or exceed 70 degrees. Too hot for the trout to actively feed and so much less stressful for the bass species.
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