I test cast a 9 foot 5wt yesterday and I must admit that I was a little disappointed after all the hype I’ve been reading about these rods. I don’t see how they can classify it as a “fast” action. Maybe I’ve just been casting the Winston LTX too much, (which, IMO, is a terrible rod, and I hope it hasn’t ruined my casting stroke). But the Boron sure did feel a little like a wet noodle.
I cast a 9 foot 5wt Sage SLT also and I think it was actually smoother, more solid and didn’t feel that much slower than the Boron even though the Sage is classified as a “medium fast” rod.
How does a Sage XP compare to the Boron?
Has anyone else noticed anything similar about the action of the Boron?
Are there any current Boron owners willing to admit they spent $600 for a rod they don’t like and wish they had something else?
I cast the BIIX head to head against the XP and several other rods. To me, the Winston was the clear winner. It’s the lightest 5wt I’ve ever cast, and I preferred its softer action to the XP.
I’ve only had two boron infused rods over the years, the first was 9.5’ for 8 Orvis boron graphite battleaxe from the early 80’s, what a club that thing was. ( If I recall correctly, it carried a pretty hefty price tag for it’s day. )
The other one being a product of the New/Old Powell company ~ a 9 for 9 Tiboron ( Yes, I know… ) yet I enjoy that rod as much as any of the nines I’ve owned, including the XP and RPLXi.
At one time I had both the Sage 590-4 XP and 590-4 SLT.
I traded away the SLT for a 589-5 SP ( twin tip ), not as a replacement so much, but more of a curio for my collection. Then I acquired a 905/4 Scott S3 to compliment the XP. Actually I prefer the Scott S3 to the other fives and fish it more frequently than the XP, but then I like fast rods.
I guess that is why there is more than one rod company. I happen to love my BIIx’s. I go back to the old saying" Use what works best for you!" There is no right or wrong! only what you like and what you don’t like. Believe it or not, there are people that don’t like fly fishing!!!
What most people don’t understand is that the Winston Boron IIx is not necessarily a “fast-action rod.” What it does is produce a very fast line speed with very little effort. This rod is unparalleled in its versatility. You can cast it slow and it will spit out the line; or you can really wind it up and get it going, and it will perform.
With this rod, it’s important to let the tool do its job. Rather than relying on brute force and power to send a line across a river or flat, the Boron IIx uses finesse to get the job done.
My Boron IIx 8-weight is my favorite fly rod. I have an SLT 4-weight that I love, too.
I LOVE my 5wt BIIx, but when I want to fish a “powerful” rod I pick up my 5wt SLT. XP to me is a bit…stiff.
I bought a 5wt XP a few years ago, figuring I couldn’t go wrong with all the positive endorsments. It was fine, but just didn’t “speak” to me the way the Boron and the SLT do. It’s the lightweight and extreme versatility of the BIIx that continues to amaze me. The XP and the Boron, not an apples to apples sort of thing. If you were expecting a direct comparison or cross between the two, I can certainly understand the dissapointment.
“The years of searching in the dark for the truth that one feels but cannot express, the intense desire and the alternations of confidence and misgivings until one breaks through the clarity and understanding are known only to him who has himself experienced them” - Albert Einstein
As others have said, let the rod do the work. I have had two friends pick up the BIIx and say something about it being Winston’s ‘fast’ rod as they proceeded to horse the rod like they would a TCR. It just doesn’t work well that way.
Try it it with a little line out and slowly progress to the limits of YOUR distance or line-carrying ability. The Boron doesn’t seem to kick in until much later in the cast.
The XP and BIIx aren’t even close in action to it until you get a boat-load of line in the air. The BIIx works well in the entire casting range. The closest I’ve come to using a similiar rod is the Loomis GLX. That too was claimed to be a ‘fast action’ rod too. The beauty of it, as in the BIIX, is it works very well close-in and weighs a line weight or two less than it’s nearest competitors.
If ‘fast’ is really all you want there are better rods available. Consider a TCR or even the TFO TCRiX.
I decided to give the Boron another shot last night, and I’m sorry, but my “ASS” is just different. So another seat I will try. Does anyone know what kind of R&D Winston went through with the Boron line. It feels, to me now mind you, like a Frankenstein rod. By that I mean that it feels like they took an XTR butt section, added a couple of LT sections for the middle and then topped it off with a WT tip section.
BTW, I also cast an XP and man is that a good rod…once you have about 50’ of line out. I’m leaning more towards the SLT.
Until there is a seperate third party standards organization IMO it is not useful to compare rod desigations from one maker to another. I am not advocating this because I think it is more fun, and more educational, to do one’s own test casting.
PS: I love my B2x’s in 6 and 8 wt. I also love my Xi2’s in 8, 10 wt and am looking forward to a 6 and a 12.
[This message has been edited by David Higley (edited 10 June 2005).]
I’ve written this before, but as we were told by Joan Wulff, this rod was her ‘idea’. The concept was she wanted a 6 wt. rod which she could fish for Atlantic Salmon. Joan is 10 years older than I, and we do lose physical strength as we age (unfortunately). The ‘usual’ rod for Atlantics is considered an 8 wt, which has more ‘lifting power’ than a 6 wt. She also is very fond of the action of the Italian Gatti rods, which are reasonably fast in the TA and PA series - and light in hand.
The boron is only in the butt section of the rod, to give it the extra strength for lifting.
It was touted as being the ‘lightest’ rod in it’s class, but we weighted the 6wt Gatti in the same length (several years old), and then
compared it to the weights given by Winston for the BIIX and the Gatti was lighter.
At Joans suggestion we both did cast it at the Denver Show 2 years ago, and neither of us were favorably impressed. The price didn’t help either.
The Gatti website lists their 6 weights as weighing between 3.1 ounces and 3.4 ounces. They only list 2 and 3 piece rods.
The Winston 4 piece 9’ 6 weight weighs only 2.75 ounces.
I guess I don’t understand… again.
my main rod is an XP 590-2. as noted above it really likes having alot of line out, but i also find it’s picky when it comes to line choice.
initially i tried the Performance Taper (Sage’s) and thought it didn’t suit it. i tried an SA “Trout Taper” and then Rio’s “Grand” taper lines, but eventually sold the Rio, went back to Sage’s Performance Taper and kept the SA as a backup line.
I own the BIIX #5 and dont like it. The only virtue of this rod is its lightness. However when you add a reel it disappears and you dont feel the difference between the BIIX or for example the S3, which is much better rod (IMHO).
Regards
When I go to a restaurant, I never ask the waiter or sommelier to recommend a wine unless I first specify what kinds of wine I enjoy. I think the same holds true for fly rods. It isn’t really very productive for someone to say I like this or I don’t like that unless some context is offered to make the preference meaningful.
For example, last year I test cast a number of rods. At that time, my favorites were a Sage SLT 9’ 4 wt., and a VPS light 8’9" 3 wt. The XP 9’ 4 wt. I tried seemed unwieldy to me and was my least favorite of the rods I tried. Ditto for a Gatti FRHP -TA 9’ 4 wt. that I bought based on recommendations and have subsequently sold. Recently, I was at it again. This time I compared 8’6" rods for 4 and 5 wt. lines. Although I didn’t expect to like the Winston Biix line as much as the Sage, or, one of my all-time favorites, the old Loomis IMX, in fact I loved the rod and ended up buying an 8’6" 5 wt. Biix, a rod that suits me perfectly because of its delightful combination of muscle and finesse.
The point of this long post is that discussions of different rods are usually pretty uninformative unless some kind of context is given. There are very few “bad” rods out there, especially rods manufactured by reputable companies. There are, however, lots of different kinds of rods. If I know your taste runs toward big cabernets I might understand why a superb Pinot Noir isn’t your cup of vino.
JC
Yes, indeed there are differences. And, if someone would only run the CCS values you could know exactly what the are and could then begin to compare andf discuss them intelligently.
Bill
How would the Common Cents system evaluate a rod that was nice and soft at the tip yet had more than the usual amount of power in the butt section? Since this ‘system’ seems to be somewhat secret (I can only find it through back issues of a magazine) I only have a small idea of how it supposedly works. Once the tip of the above mentioned rod flexes to a certain percentage (if I get the gist of the system correctly), the die is cast and the rating is made. Would it not just call the above rod a ‘soft’ rod and be done with it?