While strolling the Bass Pro Shop.....

We see lots of threads about all the ‘neat’ stuff you can find for fly tying at craft stores.

For some reason, though, mention Bass Pro Shops, and folks start getting their backs up. It’s as if there is something wrong with them, or their stuff, or their management. I don’t get it. Lots of stuff, good prices, they do all kinds of things to support the sport of fishing, and they seem to try to work with any community groups or organizattions that request their support…oh, yeah, they aren’t the ‘local fly shop’ and for some reason we seem to treat ‘support your local fly shop’ with a vigor bordering on some kind of religious fanaticism. Don’t get that esither, but…

So, my point is, have you ever taken the time to ‘wander’ one of these stores looking specifically for ‘stuff’ for fly tying? I’m not talking about the ‘fly shop’ part of them (they have stuff there, lots of it in some locations), but the ‘regular bass/saltwater/catfish/panfish stuff’ sections…

I was able to do that a while back. Had plenty of time, which is important on such an undirected search. I wanted to see what I could see and find.

I found all kinds of neat ‘stuff’ that no fly shop will ever carry…thick round lead wire on a spool for making large lead eyes (I have 1/8 inch lead wire, but I found a spool of 3/16 AND 1/4). Round silicone rubber ‘leg’ type stuff, in a larger diameter, big enough to use as bodies on nymphs up to a size 14, and in a decent color pallet. Tiny little ‘egg’ shaped weights, which I wanted for nymphing in swift water…cheap.

Hooks. No ‘fly tying hook’ markup. Just ‘fish hooks’, but in several styles (aberdeen being one of my favorites) and in sizes that fit a lot of my tying. They have hundreds of thousands of them…but you got to pick through and see what’s there and adapt it…I know most of you don’t want that hassle, but I think it’s kind of fun. I find I have uses for things like drop shot hooks (up eye ‘scud’ bend hooks), lots of the ‘jig’ hooks (they have a ‘swim jig hook’ that looks curiously like a ‘swimming nymph hook’ in a larger size that’s pefect for my favorite craw tie)-they aren’t all just bent up eyes…I’m also playing with a lot of the smaller circle hooks for tying…you can find them all in a place like this so you can actually compare them side by side…they don’t even mind if you want to open the package…they told me to go right ahead…and one feller then spent an hour talking with me about diferent hook styles and their uses for flies…had a great day.

By the way, both Mustad and Eagle Claw sell a plain old sproat hook, standard length and heavy wire, that looks curiously just like a ‘nymph/wet fly’ hook…I know it will work for my tying…found them with the bait fishing stuff…had 6X streamer hooks there, too…seems some bait fishing folks like the longer shank hooks for certain applications…but they can’t really BE streamer hooks since they were only around $4 for a box of a hundred and we all know streamer hooks are expensive.

Strike indicators…you can get the little foam ones there in bulk. Walleye fishermen use basically the same thing their crawler rigs…in lots of colors and sizes…

Lots of little parts and pieces in the tackle making section for us too. Bits of hardware, tiny little eyes for leader rings, snaps and leader/leader materials for toothy critters…Anyone ever try large ‘crimp sleaves’ for underbodies?

I forget what all I bought, but it was a lot of useful fly tying stuff for not a lot of money, and I had some fun too.

I do have to admit that I was not prepared for the ‘look’ of the store itself. Place was huge. I expected that, but what I wasn’t prepared for was how much space was used for something other than product. I’ve been in retail for many years, and maximizing sales space was always a priority. I guess not for the BPS folks…aquariums, a trout stream running through the store, more animal mounts than most nature museums. Nice place to be.

Don’t eat at the restaurant at the BPS in Phoenix, though. Food and service sucked there…only bad part of the whole day.

Buddy

Excellent post! :smiley:

The problem is that they are the same as Cabelas and Walmart and the other big box chain stores. Beyond the politics related to this topic that I won’t get into, I have yet to go into a Cabelas, Bass Pro Shop or Gander Mtn. that has an employee that has half a clue about what they are trying to push on me. Their knowledge seems to be limited to what is written on the package. I have yet to be able to get an answer to a question like “What is the difference between barb count, stiffness and webbing on hackle brand A versus hackle brand B.” Most times their response is to pick up the package and start to read or the “better” salepersons will simply just tell me they have no idea because they’ve never tied a fly before.

The opposite is true of 95% of the “local fly shops” I have been in. Yes there are idiots that own and work in them too (I know of one Orvis fly shop that is owned and operated by a guy that doesn’t fly fish or tie flies), but most times I can get way better info that goes beyond what is written on the package from those folks than I can the guy that insists on calling me dude when I go into the big box store.

We don’t have a BPS around here, but we do have a Cabela’s and a Sportsman’s Warehouse. The Cabela’s has a very small fly shop with very limited selection of “stuff” and it is staffed by local fly fishermen who were hired for their expertise. I very seldom buy there because of the limited selection.

The Sportsman’s Warehouse has a great fly fishing/tying area with a nice selection of materials anad equipment. When one of the staff gets asked a question they can’t answer, they go get Karen. A very knowledgable tier and fly fisher, also hired for her expertise. They also offer free fly tying classes twice a month with local guest tiers teaching the classes (I’m one of them) and sponsor a nice “no agenda” fly fishing club (VEE and I are members).

In both stores I have been known to wander through the “coarse” fishing section looking for hooks and other materials that seem to transfer easily from bass, musky, etc fishing to trout fishing. Great way to save some money.

with a lot of what Buddy says. Our (almost) local (75 miles one way) BPS offers a lot of neat stuff out on the floor away from the high dollar fly shop. However, the store is encouraging for our flyfishing club, sending potential members, giving some discounts and offering free fly tying classes. Also the manager of the flyfishing department offers to speak at club meetings. Most of the guys who work in their departments are knowledgable of the things they sell and have been very helpful in answering questions, not just reading labels.
Along the same line, another store in that area does the same thing. They even offer some tools and merchandise at up to 50% off retail price if you are a member of a local fishing/hunting/outdoor club.
I have been in BPS stores where I was not made to feel welcome. :confused:I guess it just depends on the location. Jim

I like 'em and Cabela’s too!

First of all it is one stop shopping for me because I also fish conventionally so I can buy size 4/0 worm hooks and Senkos, along with size 12 fly hooks and marabou in the same joint.

I put them on equal footing as far as fly shop knowledge with just about any shop around me. To be honest, I can’t remember the last time ANY fly shop worker bedazzled me with their product knowledge beyond the few SKU’s they were familiar with. I figure it’s my responsibility to be an educated consumer and do my homework so as not to be overly influenced by dog & pony shows put on by the sales clerk.

I was also very impressed with the variety of products they stock and in the small gadget or accessory market they are often times cheaper.

When the day comes that fly tyers stop going to safe havens like JoAnn’s for cheaper Ott Lights, chenille, feathers, sheet foam or other stuff; when Plano Boxes or Altoids tins are replaced with fly shop purchased plastic compartmentalized hook boxes; when road kill is ignored, hunting bounty and pet hair is discarded in favor of fancy packages of fly shop dubbing; when Sally Hansen’s is abandoned for little expensive bottles of head cement…

…then and only then I will make the local fly shop my exclusive domain for fly tying and fly fishing stuff. Just demonizing a few select large retailers seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Drake,

I know it depends on the store, but both the Cabela’s and the Bass Pro here in Arizona seem to have ‘fly guys’ working in the ‘fly shop’ part of their stores.

Why would you expect sales staff in a retail store to be ‘expert’ at anything? Low pay, dealing with the public? I bet folks who have spent a lifetime learning ANYTHING well are just waiting in line for THAT job…

As far as the ‘sample’ question you posted, not one in a hundred fly shop OWNERS could answer that question accurately (they WILL answer it, but it will be just their opinion, and I’ll bet that the one they recommend is the one they ‘sell’). Only person I’d trust, outside of my own observations, with such a question would be someone like Denny at Conranch. Besides, if you know enough to ask that question you should know enough to be able to look at the hackle and judge for yourself (hard to do, though, if your fly shop only carries ONE brand of hackle).

Owning or working in fly shop is no guarantee of expertise, but I have noted that most of the successful ones do know how to talk a lot…

My response to the whole ‘technical question’ is that I don’t expect such service from a store like Sportsman’s Warehouse, or even Cabela’s or Bass Pro Shops. I go there to ‘buy’ things. Why should such a store try to hire folks who are ‘experts’ at fly fishing, or fly tying? How can they? Would any of the so called ‘experts’ that post often here work for them? Do you know what they pay?

If I need 'information, I can get all of that, way more than I really need, right here or other places on the www.

I’ve noticed that Sportsman’s here in Tucson has some folks that know a bit about fly fishing, and some that don’t. Problem is, they hire all kinds of folks, and if you ask the guy hired for the hunting dept. something about fishing, they are often clueless. They don’t offer the ‘separation’ for the fly fishing stuff that the bigger stores do. I spoke with the manager of our Sportsman’s, and one thing he pointed out is that they don’t want anyone saying to a customer ‘that’s not my department’. If you ask an employee on the sales floor a question, they are expected to do their best to help you, regardless of where they actually ‘work’ or what their level of expertise is. Makes some kind of sense, if you think about it. Most questions aren’t all that technical. Most folks just want to know where something is.

Buddy

In addition to fly fishing, I play guitar. When one mentions Guitar Center on one of the guitar message boards, it brings forth an even stronger reaction than does BPS and Cabelas on the fly fishing boards. Guitar players have the same near blind alegence to the local mom and pop music store as fly fishers have to the local fly shop.

However, the reality is there is a BPS about 30 minutes from my house and I’m not even sure where the local fly shop is located. I fished with a guy who claimed he was the “owner” one day and, quite frankly, didn’t like him at all so there’s no incentive for me to go half way across town to try to find his shop.

In fact, with the internet, I can shop at any number of fly shops across the country who all provide great service, fast and inexpensive (and, in one case, free) shipping.

I don’t know about all the BPS stores, but nobody at this one has ever called me “dude”. The guy I’ve talked with several times in the fly shop is a fly fisher and ties flies. We’ve fished in many of the same bodies of water and from his descriptions, I know he’s fished them. I ran into him one day on a local tailwater. We chatted for a couple minutes and went our ways.

Bottom line, if the store (BPS or otherwise) has unprofessional employees who refer to customers as “dude” either the Store Manager is incompetent or he/she does not know the employee was rude. The management needs to know.

As I’ve traveled, I’ve been in some fly shops where the guy behind the counter was a real jerk.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s really cool to go into a fly shop and buy stuff and sit around and chat. I love the atmosphere. It’s a lot like sitting here and “chatting” with you guys. However, not every fly shop is like that and there are a lot of us who live in areas where there just are no fly shops to be found.

BPS and Cabelas are not evil nor are all fly shop owners saints.

Jeff

I have shoped in BPS,s and Cabelas, I have never had any sales people ever “push” anything on me. Its just the opposite, some of the smaller fly shops I have been in seemed to have the “push” whats in stock on me attitude. I dont live far from the Hamburg Cabelas and to be honest, most of the guys in the fly shop seem to be very knowlegable. I dont think it matters if you are in a big box store or a small shop, the sales people cant know everything. Can you imagine the range of questions that you might get asked in a single shift? Anything from, “Whats the best fly for trout on your local stream?” to “What is the best hook to tie a tarpon fly on?”. I think I would rather have a honest answer if they dont know all the answers than getting a line of BS. Most of the time I dont even want a sales persons help. I am not saying that the big box stores are the best, I just dont agree that they are as bad as some people make them out to be. I spend my money in some local smaller shops, some of the big retailers, and some online. I have yet to find a single source to cover all of my needs.

Good Luck, Tony

I find that really hard to believe, but maybe a better line of questions as an example would have been about regional differences in a BWO or Sulphur hatch that an angler may expect to see on closely situated watersheds. I think this is a common question that many big box “fly shop” workers couldn’t answer.

I do agree with the point about pay for the job will only attract workers of a certain calibur, but “local” fly shops don’t pay much either, which is probably why so many “local” fly shop employees work a couple of jobs.

I guess I’m spoiled with pretty darn good “local” fly shops here in PA (I travel the state a lot, so I don’t limit this to just within my local area). It’s rare to go into most of them (not the one owned by the guy who doesn’t fish or know anything that isn’t printed in the Orvis catalog) and not find knowledgeable people working there that can answer questions based on first hand knowledge/experience. A large percentage of the shops I frequent have guides working the counters and a few have published authors and some of the really good ones have the old timer who has been fishing the watershed they are on/near for a long, long time and know every rock in the stream.

You just don’t get that in the big box stores, at least I haven’t seen it. I’ve only been in the Cabelas in Hamburg and Wheeling and the Bass Pro Shops in Harrisburg and the Finger Lake region of NY. On top of the way more knowledgeable salesmen, the selection is usually better in the “local” shops than the big box stores and the prices are about the same, usually not more than a few cents different on smaller items.

In the end I believe people should spend their money where they want to, but I firmly believe that the “local” shops are almost always better than the big box stores.

I don’t like Lowes, Depot, Wal-mart or any of the other boxes either.

:rolleyes:

Its all we even have around here, no local fly shops. One Bass pro shops about 20 minutes south, and the largest Cabelas store in Hamburg, PA a few hours north, which is a once every year or 2 trip.

Bass pro shops here has mostly outdoorsmans working, with a few old guys who stopped or a few young people who just wanna work somewhere close to home. But this store is nice. They have a big tying desk and materials, and if you wanna tie something on their desk just ask an employee. I showed how to tie my red yuk bug to one employee there and gave him em all, even though I was using all but a few of materials I bought. And he even showed me a 4lb trout he caught over the weekend. As for their selection, it has everything the average angler needs, like foam, hooks, thread, etc. But they don’t carry the fancy hackles needed for dries, as we’re close to the bay, and the store takes preference to striped bass fishing.

But the Cabelas in PA is more hunting oriented. Their fly selection is decent, materials they sell are of low quality.

The Bass Pro Shop in Concord NC is very good. Like some of the others have commented these guy’s fly fish, they know the sport, are helpful and will talk fishing with you if they are not to busy. They also have fly tying classes every week and other event they sponsor. In is just according to where you are I guess.

I think I’m beginning to understand the core issues here.

Some of us like to tie flies on our ‘own’, figure out how to do it and maybe adapt stuff to the process. Those type of folks are fine with stores that have ‘stuff’. We’ll wander around, ponder alternatives, and try to come up with something that may work for us.

Others want to tie a fly pattern just like it shows, with just the same (or ‘correct’) materials, and need someone who they think is more knowledgeable to ‘tell them’ what they need and answer all their questions about it. Different mind sets.

Apparently some of us want to go a stream or fishery and use our own knowledge and experience to figure out what the fish want so that we can catch them. Others want to walk into a ‘store’, or call a friend, (dig up some intelligence?) and be told what to do, where to do it, etc… If I’m not going to catch fish, I’d rather it be because I didn’t figure it out, not that I listened to someone else who supposedly ‘knew’. And, if I am going to catch fish, I’d prefer to have myself to thank for it, not some store clerk. Again, different mind sets. Either way certainly works more times than not…

Neither is a good or bad, just different. Probably the whole left brain/right brain thing, so we’ll never agree on this one.

I like the big box stores. Home Depot, WalMart, BPS, Cabela’s, thay are where I PREFER to ‘shop’. No one bothers me. I don’t need ‘help’ until I get to the cash register. I need TIME to look around. If I can’t find what I want, I’ll ask…but sometimes I don’t know what I want and I need the time to figure out if what they HAVE will work for me.

I can’t ‘shop’ properly with some shop owner breathing down my neck, telling me about fly hatches I’m not concerned about, or regaling me with his exploits with a fly rod. I certainly don’t need anyone to tell me which hackle to buy, I’ll look at it and decide myself, thank you very much. Nor do I care about other’s opinions on hooks I choose to use, the color of the proper dubbing for my Adams, or the ‘deal’ they are offering on last year’s rods, etc… I want to be left alone to find and purchase what I want.

Only time I EVER went to my ‘local’ fly shop was when I already knew exactly what I wanted and knew he had it. THEN, I could walk in, pick up my stuff, and sit around and talk if I had the time. Enjoyed that, but it’s not a place to ‘shop’ for stuff. I went there to ‘buy’ and to chat. Unfortunitly, he seldom had ‘enough’ stuff for me to buy. Which is probably one reason he’s no longer in business. Made horrible coffee, too;)

Left brain/right brain.

Buddy

What happens when we have no alternative to what they HAVE?

What happens when exactly what you need is not available because the company that manufactures it wouldn’t or couldn’t sell their soul to have a slot in the big box?

What happens when the customer of the Big box can’t afford to shop there because the company they worked for has gone out of business because they couldn’t afford to help pay the Big Box their $34,000.00 per minute profit?

Sorry, the arrogance of the Boxes angers me, and the gullibility of consumers being sucked in to the support of these monolithic entities at peril of our economy makes me want to wade into a stream and wave a stick, while others worry about the failure of our economy.:rolleyes:

What is the difference in mail ordering and going to a large national chain store? I would have to drive about 25 miles past the BPS to get to a fly shop. The BPS has hurt their business very little if at all, I’m guessing. Many shop from the internet and catalogs, those of us still working frequently don’t have time to get by a flyshop during the week.

As for the staffs the BPS fly shop staff here in Atlanta and in Ft. Lauderdale (the shops where I have spent the most time) are both very knowledgeable, supportive of local pro fishing clubs and efforts. I like to check out BPS in other cities as well as Cabelas when on the road. It has been years since I had an opportunity to visit the mother ship in Springfield, MO, it’s massive. But if you find yourself in Foxboro, MA stop by the BPS, it is beautiful, they have a 42’ whale hanging from the ceiling, but I was probably more impressed by the real birch bark canoe that have on display. The tribes from south of the TN river thought a canoe was a hollowed out log, of course that probably last longer than tree bark.

I agree with all of you…the people are great, helpful (or at least try to be), employed, and the stores are good for the local economy (or at least as soon as they generate sales tax revenue greater than the incentives and concessions made for them to lure them into a market.)

I was in one just today…spent an hour there…laid my hands on some things I want…walked out without buying a thing…came home and ordered the stuff from an independant ma and pa operation online, saved Tax, no shipping, and got a better deal.

It’s a small thing, and they (BPS) didn’t miss me at all. Just like Wally World didn’t miss me when bought my toilet paper from the corner grocery, or Lowe’s not missing me when I bought a pound of roofing nails from the local hardware feed and seed (from a bin…not in a box)

I guess no one would miss me if I stopped hauling my trash (and other’s) out of the creeks I fish. But it makes me feel better.

Plunker,

I’m not sure I can agree with doing what you say you did. Seems like ‘using’ (not in a good way) the retailer to ‘help you out’, and then bashing them here because you don’t agree with their marketing approach. We often hear of it’s being done in the reverse, folks spend time and gain information in a smaller shop, then turn to the online or larger retailers to make the purchase just to save a bit of money. I’m against that practice, whichever way it goes.

Still, my initial response to this was a bit harsh, and I apologize for it.

Buddy

and I have agreed to disagree, and I think he and I are better for it…I apologize for bashing the BPro Guys (you too Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc…)

As I mentioned in private to MR. Sanders…we all are faced with the reality of the Economy enough in our daily lives. This is one place where we should come to escape that for a while…shame on me for soapboxing.

So we buried the hatchet… I buried one in his back…he buried one in my head…

“Just a Flesh Wound! I’ve had worse” :wink:

I don’t use only one source for my flytying and flyfishing needs. I shop around a lot. If i’m looking for something i’ll look for it in my local fly shop, Bass Pro, Cabelas and as many online flyfishing retailers that I can. I’m just looking for the lowest price and in todays economy I think thats crucial. Flyfishing and tying is expensive and shopping around just makes sense.

Why was Plunker hammered for shopping around for the best price?? I simply don’t get it. If he doesn’t want to give his business to big chain stores why is that a problem? It’s his own personal choice.