…complicated fly to tie in your experience guys?
I stll have headaches with wets wings…
I really want to learn to spin deer hair but try as I might I SUCK!!! at it!!! My local shop is talking about having a class on it but they don’t know when yet, I’m on the list.
Fatman
full dress atlantic salmon flies
took a tying class with tom juracek in the 80’s at a fly shop in the denver area and havent tied any since.
Fatman, there are a few methods for ‘applying’ deer hair in a pattern. One is spinning and another is flaring, and another is packing and stacking.
Here’s a photo of a mouse using the pack-n-stack method. There’s a tying tutorial for it on my website.
For a fly that’s actually to be ‘fished’, the Whitlock Deep Sheep Shad is pretty complicated. After several dozen I found myself pondering methods and ideas to simplify it. Now I have a three step shad type baitfish fly that’s not only easier to tie, but more effective.
The ‘full dress’ atlantic salmon flies are very complicated. Certainly on purpose. These flies are more about the skills and act of tying than anything to do with a fish. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, these are worthwhile skills and I admire those willing to do the work to acquire them.
I decided long ago that fly tying didn’t require slavish adherence to recipes and techniques. I always look at a recipe and ask myself ‘why’ a particular material or step is done. If I can’t immediately see the reason for it, I’ll try eliminating it. Most times, the fish don’t care and the fly becomes easier to tie. Many times I’ve been able to contact the originator/author (not always the same) and just ask ‘why?’. Many, many times I’ve been told that it just ‘looks good’ or the fly was ‘too simple’ so the step was added…
And, for Fatman, spinning deer hair isn’t hard, it just takes practice. The keys are hair selection, hair amount, thread control, and packing. For a quality bug, you need all of these to come together. Only practice can do this. There are no real ‘tricks’, and every time someone tries to make do with some type of ‘trick’ it just slows the learning curve. Lots of instructional videos out there, Helms’ and Dennis’ are both first rate. Once you see the basics, just buy some good hair and spin a couple of hundred and you’ll get it. Well worth the effort.
Good Luck!
Buddy
I hate the frigging BLUE BUTTON (Reply to Thread) above this quick reply window. For the umteenth time I’ve zapped my response.
Again…
I second the Full Dress Atlantic Salmon Flies. Especially if you want to show them to someone.
Rocket, you question was “what is the most complicated fly in your experience…?” That’s a good question and should rule out discussions on the obvious merits of ultra-simple fishing flies. I’ve tied & flyfished for 45 years, and have been tying at shows for almost 30 years, and have seen pretty much all of what and who is out there. When I want to see fishing flies, I head for the tables or booths of the guides that fish those waters of interest- end of story. They know what works and don’t go overboard, so they tend to tie simple patterns meant to be lost but still are productive.
But since your question is pointed towards certain aspects of certain flies, like classic wet-fly wings, this is my advise. Visual education is a must, and hands-on visual demonstration, especially 1-on-1, is the absolute best- hence the popularity of fly clinics, conclaves, and shows where hundreds of experts are there to show you just about anything yo need to learn.
But that’s actually not your question. What are the most complicated flies in my experience? First I would pick classic full-dressed salmon flies. Marvin Nolte is a good friend of mine and is also a world champion classic salmon fly tier. Go into a competition to find out what complex is all about. And those flies are definitely not to fish with.
Second I would choose a classic winged dry fly, proportionately correct, on a size 32 Mustad hook. That’ll make you pull your hair out- if you can see the hook at all. Again- not to fish with, but definitely to challenge yourself with.
Third, and almost on a par with salmonflies, are the ultra-realistics. This is a wide-open field of art, innovation, creativity, talent and perserverence. Paul Whillock ties some of the most incredible realistics I could ever imagine, and he has hundreds of hours invested in a single fly. There is no limit or ceiling on this aspect of flytying, and new masters are cropping up every year with new ideas, materials applications, and targets.
Fourth- any fly that you don’t have the fundamentals and tricks to pull it off is complicated. And that goes for married wings, dubbing tough materials, upscaling flies for large fish, or downscaling for midge hatches. If you don’t have good eyes, anything less than #22 can be a real challenge. Are such small flies needed? Not the question here. What is complicated is the question?
I tie a 28" long bonito attractor pattern (deceiver-style - double 12/0’s) for trolling patterns for marlin tournaments in Cabo. Does it work? Yes, but that’s not the question. Is it complicated? Yes- takes almost a day to tie. Why? Because I enjoy tying them, they work, and it may be the fly that catches a multimillion-dollar marlin (priceless publicity). And I charge quite a bit for them.
So, to answer you question… I could sit and show you a few ways to make married and classic wet-fly wings in less than half an hour. A few ‘tricks’ and you’d be good to go. Salmonflies?-- take lots of classes, read lots of books, go to lots of shows to watch the masters, collect lots of exotic and rare materials, and spend many joyful hours learning a pursuit of art that’s very satisfying. (And again, that’s for the ‘most complicated’ of salmonflies- not the easy ones.) Realistics? Lose half your sanity to make room for un-checked creativity.
Want to tie deer hair flishing flies? A few fundamentals on stacking or spinning will get you down the road. Want to tie flies for shows and magazine covers. Same drill as the salmonflies, but not nearly as much involved.
Hope I was able to answer you question. All 'complicated' flies have evolved from simple roots.
What’s in your flybox?
Don
Simple answer. I agree with Norman. I have attempted what is considered a simple Fully dressed Atlantic Salmon fly. Each technique has it’s own complexities. I am sure I will run out of time before I have accomplished even one decent fly.
I have two things I hate to tie…well…because I’m really bad at it. One is Full Dress Atlalntic Salmon Flies, the other is anything with spun or stacked deer hair. Fortunately for me, my lovely wife, VEE, is excellent at both of these things so I ask her to do them for me. When we do muddler minnows for example, I’ll tie everything but the deer hair head. Whip finish the fly and hand it to her for the deer hair spinning. Seems to work well for us.
REE
… stay away from anything complicated. Tie simple, effective, durable flies spending as little time at the vice as you can. Go fishing.
John
It ain’t the spinning. I can spin.
It’s the cutting. To do it justice, you need a bit of the artist in you. I can’t even find a speck in myself.
No Hackle, Double-Wing, Sidewinder Dun. Size #18-#24.
I don’t think 1 in 10,000 tyers can get this one. You gotta hold your tongue just right (or something).
I haven’t tied in years but the challenge was to tie the Vince Marinaro true Thorax Hendrickson (ephemerella sub varia)…I eventually mastered it and taught it too. It’s tough because it doesn’t “feel” right after tying ‘normal’ flies.
LF