Went to fly shop yesterday to purchase a calf tail. The shop only had something called “kip tail.” They’ve had calf tail in the past.
Is “kip” some new word for “calf”, or is there such a critter?
HCR -
A kip is a cross between a buffalo and a nauga.
For clarification PM Flybinder.
John
Actually, while not being much of a fly tyer and not as familiar with the lingo as most on this BB, I do believe kip is the same as calf when it comes to tails, as used in fly tying.
But feel free to PM Flybinder anyway.
A Kip is a cross between a Beefalo and a Naugha, John, not a true buffalo.
Also:
n., pl. kip. A basic unit of currency in Laos.
But,a “kip” is also an untanned hide of a small animal, usually but not always, referring to a calf.
Paul -
You once again are falling back on domesticated critters. From Wikipedia - Beefalo:
"Accidental crosses were noticed as far back as 1749 in the southern United States. Cattle and buffalo were first intentionally crossbred during the mid-1800s. Charles Goodnight was one of the first to succeed and called his hybrid cattalo. After seeing thousands of cattle die in a Kansas blizzard in 1886, Charles Jesse “Buffalo” Jones also worked to cross buffalo and cattle with the hope that they would survive the harsh winters [1]. He called the result “cattalo” in 1888 [2]. Mossom Boyd of Bobcaygeon, Ontario first started the practice in Canada. After his death in 1914, the Canadian government continued experiments in cross-breeding up to 1964 with little success. Lawrence Boyd continues the crossbreeding work of his Grandfather on a farm in Alberta.
It was found early on that crossing a male buffalo with a domestic cow would produce few offspring but that crossing a domestic bull with a buffalo cow apparently solved the problem. The female offspring proved fertile but rarely so for the males. Although the cattalo performed well, the mating problems meant that the breeder had to maintain a herd of wild and difficult-to-handle buffalo cows.
In 1965, Jim Burnett of Montana produced a hybrid bull that was fertile. Soon after, Cory Skowronek of California formed the World Beefalo Association and began marketing the hybrids as a new breed. …"
Most, if not all of the kip around here are either direct decendants of the ancestors of our Idaho free roaming naugas and the ancestors of the buffalo of the Yellowstone ecosystem, or offspring of the occasional mating of naugas that come down off the Central Mountains to visit Yellowstone National Park and are accosted by real buffalo and … well, you know.
John
HCR,
While a ‘kip’ may be a totally different animal than a ‘calf’, I do know from my vast experience in haunting the aisles of various retail establishments, combined with my near legendary inovative genius at the vise, that a ‘kip’ tail and a ‘calf’ tail can be used interchangeably in the tying of flies.
Probably because they are the same thing.
Buddy
John, AS ALWAYS, I stand in awe, (and wish I didn’t, it’s hard as hell to get off my boots), of your never ending volume of great knowledge.
I’d forgotten, obviously and embarrassingly so, that Idaho DOES still posses the last, great, wild, herd of Naughas on the planet.
Living in the fantastic Gem State, as I did for many years, I can’t believe I also forgot about the Naugha’s Yellowstone migrations and their “interaction” to put it politely, with the true Buffalo.
Now, YOU DID, introduce some mew information that I was unaware of. Namely, the Naughas inner breeding with the wild and more or less, elusive, “Hybrid”. I had no idea.
It was MY understanding, (but I’ll still run it past Snark and Ernie, to be sure), that the Hybrids were considered extinct, throughout the West and the only ones still living were being held captive and used for research, by the folks in the auto/ecology industry!?
Being an “electro/mammal” in basic gene construction as they’re know to be, maybe I shouldn’t be all that surprised that a few escaped captivity and still roam freely.
Mother Nature surely is amazing!
In case you want to bore and/or scare someone away at a cocktail party, yes a “kip” is a calf. But a “kipper” is not someone who does something with a calf, rather, it is a smoked herring.
Unless, of course, the “Kipper” at the party, along with their suit and tie, are also wearing knee high rubber boots and Velcro chaps.
“A kip”, also, in English slang, (over the big pond), is a “Boarding house room, a small flat,(apartment) or a small room for sleeping in”.
Which, now that you put the two in the same posting… makes one look at “A Kipper” in a whole, new, light also!?!
Kip, a unit of one thousand pounds in weight.
I am always truely amazed at the vast amount of fly fishing and / or general knowledge possessed by the members of this board! Truely spectacular! :rolleyes:
Thanks to Panman, I received via PM the truth on the matter.
Great!! Panman, knows his stuff so I’m sure you got the info you were after!?!
Which, I was sure, was also answered in most of the above posts,as well!
a “kip” is also slang for a short sleep or nap over this side of the pond
You fine Folks at FAOL know how I try to stay out of controversy at all times being the nice guy that I am but I cannot stand Idly by while you are fed this Completely Rotten Awefull Prevarication. (hint its an Acronym)
Nauga are not confined just to the remote Wilds of East Lowell Idaho. There are still large herds of them in British Columbia living in relative obscurity in the Skookumchuck mountains. They are not cross bred with buffalo or beefalo or even the dreaded Tuberfellow as was once suspected. Well maybe in Idaho but then everything is a bit strange in Idaho.
The strain that truly gave rise to the Naugas is a cross between a Left side hill gouger and an Albertan Peeve. Not the annoying Pet Peeves people keep captive in their high rise apartments for bringing out at every opportunity to annoy their friends with. Hint. No one wants to see or hear your pet peeve.
No these Peeves are the true Kasnorkian Peeves. The very same ones that the pioneers first encountered on their trip west.
Peeves did not take kindly to the influx of people seeking ?.. Well what ever it is that people seek.
So the Peeves packed up their bags and moved from Alberta to the Skookumchuck range Of BC where they live to this present day.
They quickly fell in love with the indigenous Left side hill gougers and often would inter-marry with them. The resulting offspring were called Naugas. Left Hill Gougers have legs longer on one side of their bodies than on the other. This allows them to graze and walk on steep hillsides without tipping over. They cannot turn around with their long legs up hill and short legs down hill as this will cause a tumble down the Hillside. Occasionally an accident would happen and they would fall down into a small valley called the lurch.
A fall down the steep mountian side would cause the Nauga to call out in alarm a high squeaky Kip Kip Kip. Ouch, drat, Kip Kip Kip. Bits of skin and hair would be torn from the hapless Nauga as it slid and fell down the jagged rocky hillside. These patches of hair covered fur soon became known as Kips after the cries of the animal.
Hence Gougers are forced circle the hill always in the same direction.
This is a big part of their attraction to the Kasnorkian Peeves. Peeves had the fortune of being able to extend their downhill legs or retract them at will. This made them perfect mates for the gougers.
A huge part of the attraction of the Gouger to the Peeve was that Your Gouger spouse could never leave you In the lurch!
This was for 2 reasons.
- The Lurch is at the bottom of the hill and as mentioned the Gougers can not travel down hill. DUH!
- If you were patient , just stood still, turned and faced the other direction
You would soon see your errant spouse coming around the hill toward you In their constant circling and re circling of the hill searching for food.
This circling is the reason for the parallel trails you see terracing some of the Skookumchuck hills.
Peeves also fell in love with the hapless Right hill gougers. Offspring of the peeves and rightys were called Yum Yums. Sadly because their
offspring turned out to be much tastier and tender than the left hill crowd.
The pioneers quickly learned this fact and the rightys were soon slaughtered into extinction for their flavourful meat.
The Skookumchuck range of mountains was named after the tasty right side Yum Yums. Skookumchuck means quite literally . Skookum= good Chuck = Food . English translation the good food mountains.
Conversely when asked how the leftys tasted people would say Naw gah pattoie pattoie or simply Naw gah which over time was shortened and became Nauga.
Leftys Had their left hills and Rightys had their right hills. They could not exist on the same hill because they could not turn around so when a righty met a lefty they were unable to pass without falling down the hill so it was always a fight to the death. One sometimes both would perish at these rare meetings. Leftys were the much tougher animal and usually won the conflict. Hence the origin of the term . Last one Left standing. Or Left In the Lurch.
They were more desirable to the peeves so the term Left at the alter also came into being.
The meat of the much tougher Leftys however did not appeal to people so they were instead hunted for their almost bullet-proof hides.
A bill was introduced by Chief rain-in-the pants and some guy named Fred. to protect the Naugas and the Gougers . It was enacted into law in 1883.
Sadly the Peeves received no such protection. This was because of their big city cousins pet peeves were not held in such high regard. Guilt by association has led to a decline in numbers of peeves. Sad but true.
For a more complete history of the Peeve, Gouger, and Nauga story and some Skookumchuck recipes for Yum Yum. Google
[u]www.whatacrock.gov[/u] Click on Kasnorkian Peeves.
I’d have pm’d you this but the people need to know the truth. :mrgreen:
( The above is all true, you can’t make this stuff up )
GnuBee,
I can’t read your drivel. The tears of laughter preclude any discernible vision.
Thanks again for your comments. 
C’ya in Lowell,
I had a 63 1/2 Falcon Sprint that had an interior made from naugas, very nice!
Is that where we get naugahide from?
Did the Falcon have a 3 speed shift on the steering column?
Doug
blktlhntr; No you get falconhide from 63 1/2 Falcons.
Dshock; No
No it had 63 1/2 male naugas running around on this big wheel attached to the transmisson. It didn’t need a shifter, you yell forward to go forward and backwards to go backwards. If you needed more speed you hang a picture of Shakira in front of them. To slow to a stop hang a fresh casaba mellon in front of their noses Naugas will do anything for a casaba mellon.
Caution: Stops involving too many Casabas will cause at least a 1/2 hour stop so just use enough mellon so each one can have just a bite or two. Conversely hanging a picture of Shakira to go fast will get you at least to the next county before they will even think of slowing for a casaba. Caution is strongly advised .:mrgreen:
PS If you are wondering about the 1/2 male nauga. He is still in the closet but is thinking seriously of coming out.
No. They’re pulling your leg. Naugas are not related to the buffalo and do not come from the Skookumchuck mountains. Naugahyde (the correct spelling) comes from Naugatuck, Connecticut. It was developed by Uniroyal Engineered Products, LLC.
It is a trademarked product, making the Nauga perhaps the first commercially developed patented life form. What makes the Naugas unique is that they do not have to be slaughtered for their skin - they shed it kind of like snakeskin. The following comes directly from the Naugahyde website: “The small chameleon-like animals known as Naugas have long been known as the source of beautiful and durable fabrics that look like fine, soft leather. And since Naugas shed their hydes without harm to themselves, the fabrics they help make came to be known as Naugahyde, The Cruelty Free Fabric.”
So there you have it. You’re fairly new here, so there is one thing you have to remember. Fishermen lie.
And if you’re ever going to Naugatuck to see the Naugas, you owe it to yourself to fish the Naugatuck River. Connecticut stocks brood-stock atlantic salmon, and some of them are huge. Rather than shamelessly copy a photo to paste here, see the original for yourself: http://www.flyaddict.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2705