Warren's furled fluoro leaders ....

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
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Last fall Warren sent me a 5’8" furled fluoro leader to try out for nymph fishing. I used it quite a bit on a couple of our larger rivers with my 7 wt fishing tandems of large, weighted stonefly nymphs and was well impressed with it.

A couple months ago, I inquired to Warren if he had done any shorter furled fluoro leaders which might be more suitable for a shorter rod and lighter line weights for smaller streams. Almost overnight, it seems, Warren came up with a couple 32" leaders, one furled from 2# test fluoro and one from 4# test fluoro.

I nymph fished the 2# test leader on my 4 wt line on the East Fork of the Bitterroot and Upper Rock Creek with a weighted stonefly or worm trailing a midge larva pattern a number of times with good results. A couple days ago, under windy conditions on Upper Rock Creek, I fished the 4# test leader with my 5 wt line and fished the same nymph combination with very good results. ( Both lines and nymph rigs were fished under an indicator using the same rod - a 7’9" for 4/5 Hexagraph. With both rigs, I used a 3X fluoro tippet to the stonefly and a 4X fluoro tippet to the midge larva. )

So does this set up get the flies down to where the fishies are ?? And do the fishies like it ?? It does, and they probably don’t. Ask the twenty or so west slope cutthroat and ten or so mountain whitefish I took fishing this set up on Upper Rock Creek for just a few hours a couple days ago.

If you have been thinking about trying something like this, I would encourage you to go for it, with a tip of the hat to Warren. Following are some comments from Warren on how he built these leaders. If you have questions, feel free to ask. Warren will jump in and handle that part of any discussion.

"It is made using Kathy Scott’s formula and board lay-out. Simple 3 step furled leader ( 10-8-6)

Board peg positions are:

From peg #1 to peg #2 is 8 inches

From peg #2 to peg #4 is 14 inches

From peg #4 to peg #3 is 14 inches

This gives you a leader length, before twisting, equal to 36 inches.

I have another peg that is 3 1/2 inches away from peg #'s 1 and 5 and I twist each leg, with an electric drill, to that peg which gives me the 10% for twisting.

This gives you a total leader of around 32.4 inches."

Thanks again, Warren.

John

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I bought a furled fluro leader off ebay, 5.5’, and have been using it for streamers with a 2 to 3 foot fluro 4x tippet, and have had success on a local spring creek with bows and on a mountain stream with native brookies. I dont know if it is less visable, since the furled leader is obviously thicker, but it sinks better than mono and I think it helps get the flies down. The problem I had is it does not have a tippet ring and the small loop seems to twist/stretch closing the loop opening making it so small it is difficult to change tippets.

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Warren sent me a couple of his furled leaders to try. I’ve also bought furled leaders from a couple of other sources/companies (ie. Blue Sky). I can safely say that Warren’s leaders are head and shoulders above anything else I’ve ever tried or seen.

Warren is THE MAN!!!:smiley:

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Thanks John and Ed. I am just glad that they worked out for you two. John, I think the one leader that you described as 58" was really a 5’ 8" furled leader. As far as the tippet rings go, I do not use them and the shorb loop on the tippet end does not give me any problems when changing tippet. It could be because I use a loop-to-loop connection for attaching my tippet and also a loop-to-loop to attach the butt end of the furled leader to my fly line.

I am pleased that the furled leaders worked good. I know that I sure enjoy using them. I am kicking around about making another 32" leader out of 6 or 8 pound test mono to use on my TCR 6 weight for smallmouth bass fishing and attaching about 36" of 6 or 8 pound fluorocarbon for tippet.

Just experimenting which I enjoy doing.

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I use loop to loop also, I think I read somewhere on this site that streamers twist your line? Maybe thats my problem, or maybe your leaders are just better! If you decide to sell a couple of those, put me down :slight_smile:

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You set up with a 36 inch peg board layout, ending up with a 32.3 inch finished furled leader. Why not try a 40 incn peg board layout, ending up with a 36 inch finished furled leader?

There are not 10-8-6 loop sequences, there are 10 1/2-8 1/2-6 1/2

I don’t like Kathy’s peg positions, the Butt Section should have more mass than the tip section. Balance leaders are a 60%/20%/20% of material weight distribution…

Here are my peg positons for a 5 peg board layout of a 8 1/2 - 6 1/2 - 4 1/2 furled leader with a 55% reduction. Using Kathy Scots “V” Pegging Method

5 Foot Furled Leader (60” +6” = 66”)
Total Percentage of all segments = 2.448
1.000/2.448 = L1/66 inches so L1 = (1.000 x 66 inches)/2.448 =

Peg 1 = 26.961 inches = 27”
Peg 5 = 0.623 x 26.961 inches = 16.796 inches = 44”
Peg 2 = 0.395 x 26.961 inches = 10.650 inches = 54”
Peg 4 = 0.257 x 26.961 inches = 6.929 inches = 61”
Peg 3 = 0.173 x 26.961 inches = 4.664 inches = 66”


Parnelli

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… I think, Parnelli.

Which is that the shorter ( 32" ) furled fluoro leaders that Warren made have worked really well for nymphing with 4 and 5 wt lines on a 7’ 9" rod on smaller water.

Maybe a different length and different configuration would satisfy your formulas and suit your science - but the leaders Warren made satisfy me and suit my purposes.

Perhaps others will want to experiment as Warren did and develop these kinds of leaders for their own uses. If they do, they may see some merit to what you are suggesting and follow that lead. That would be a good thing, just like it would be a good thing if they follow Warren’s lead, and, either way, go out and have a good time fishing.

John

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“You set up with a 36 inch peg board layout, ending up with a 32.3 inch finished furled leader. Why not try a 40 incn peg board layout, ending up with a 36 inch finished furled leader?” [COLOR=black]Because John had asked for a 30" furled leader when he made the request[/COLOR]

“There are not 10-8-6 loop sequences, there are 10?-8?-6?” not being the sharpest tool in the tool shed, I am not sure what you are saying here. Sorry
By 10-8-6 I meant that the 8" butt section has 10 strands of material, the 14" mid section has 8 strands of material and the 14" tippet section has 6 strands of material which is Kathy’s formula.

“I don’t like Kathy’s peg positions, the Butt Section should have more mass than the tip section. Balance leaders are a 60%/20%/20% of material weight distribution…”
I understand your thoughts on Kathy’s formula, but, her formula does turn over a 6 foot tippet with fly with no problems at all and very smoothly. I also like your peg measurments and plan to make up a furled leader using your formula. This should make a good leader for my smallmouth and larger trout fishing TCR 6wt. I think I will get busy and make one up now before retiring for the night.

Thanks for your formula…

PS - Just finished making a 36" Furled leader using your peg positions and if the weather permits it, I will give it a try tomorrrow (Monday). Thanks, again, for you peg position formula.

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Dan Rupe (Old Rupe) helped me with a formula (Big Leader Formula) created by David Ulmer (slicfoot). Dave’s Big Leader Formula was posted as a article in Jim Castwell’s Column. The connection to the article is missing.

The butt section of the tapered leader has the largest percentage of the mass of the leader material, this helps carry the energy of the cast to the fly from the fly line. Each section is a balance reduction of the previous section, as the diameter becomes smaller.

If you connect your thread to the outside posts on the board, each section has a half loop section in addition to the full loops that you wind around the posts. This does make a big difference in the calculations, for a balance furled leader. Everything is based on the percentage of the first segment length (P1). I add length to the board to compensated for the shorting of the finished furled leader to have a finished furled leader at the original length that I calculated for the finished furled leader.

Here are my numbers for a furled tapered leader …

Percentage Calculations:
P1 = 1.00
P2 = 1.000 x 0.50 x 34/30 = 0.567
P3 = 0.567 x 0.50 x 30/26 = 0.327
P4 = 0.327 x 0.50 x 26/22 = 0.193
P5 = 0.193 x 0.50 x 22/18 = 0.118
[SIZE=5]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=black]5 Foot Furled Leader (60? +6? = 66?)
Total Percentage of all segments =2 .205 (220.5)%
1.000/2.205 = L1/66 inches so L1 = (1.000 x 66 inches)/2.205 =

For a 7 peg (Kathy Scott) layout these are the calculated lengths and the corresponding (Peg Position) on the furled leader board

L1 = 29.932 inches (30?)
L5 = 0.567 x 29.932 inches = 16.971 inches b[/b]
L2 = 0.327 x 29.932 inches = 9.788 inches b[/b]
L4 = 0.193 x 29.932 inches = 5.777 inches b[/b]
L3 = 0.118 x 29.932 inches = 3.532 inches b[/b]

The a perfect parabolic tapered furled leader…

Build one and try it out, you might learn something… my numbers do not lie, and will give you the best furled leader possible.

I am a mathematician from my 27 years in Military Service as a Artillery Surveyor, Construction Surveyor, Nuclear-Biological-Chemical Warfare Specialist, and a Pipeline Design Specialist. ~Parnelli :smiley:

[/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Please see my about to be posted thread on WF furled leaders…

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… but this thread is about short ( 30" or thereabouts ) fluoro leaders for nymph fishing with shorter, lighter line weight rods.

Do you have some recommendations, Steven, in simple English ( not numbers ) to further that discussion ?? And recommendations that don’t require a knowledge of your peg placements or Kathy’s as a point of reference ?? For example, my frame of reference, using a different method of furling, is based on the length of the butt, mid, and tip sections and / or those sections as a percentage of the finished product, and the configuration expressed as the number of strands of material in each section - e.g. 10-8-6 to mean ten strands in the butt section, eight strands in the mid section, and six strands in the tip section.

If you were going to make a 30" ( or thereabouts ) fluoro leader for nymph fishing with shorter, lighter line weight rods, how would you go about it - in the frame of reference that I provided ?? And how would that leader perform differently on the stream, with an indicator placed near the butt of the leader and two nymphs fished off fluoro tippet as described in my opening post, than the one Warren sent me ??

Thanks.

John