I recently read an article in Fly Fishing Magazine about Hoppers. They went over many technics of fishing them and the different types but, the one thing they iterated through out the whole article was this. The foam hoppers were just too light when compared to a live hopper by 2-3 grains. They did not hit the water with the same fish attracting spat that the live hopper had. They best match to the live hopper was the Jay-Dave Hopper which has a weight almost identical. There is no reason I think not to use foam but remember you may have to put just the smallest amount of weight in order to get the splat need to attract the fish.
I would think this would only matter in the few moments after the fly hit, or in extremely flat water (where ants & beetles are usually better anyway). When you are fishing hoppers in rough water like we do here, or stretching out the drift in average water, the initial splat wouldn’t much matter. You could also just stop your cast a touch harder if you want a harder landing.
With the right cast you can delicately land a hopper or can make it hit the water like a rifle shot.
Frankly, I think the author of that article was…um…mistaken.
I usually tie my hoppers with heavier hooks (when I used to tie Chernobyls, they always landed on their backs so I thought a nymph/streamer hook would help), and after a few casts the hair wings and heads absorb a bit of water; whether that makes any difference is problematic. I catch fish on fresh flies and ones that have been on for a while; how you cast and where you cast is more important. I have absolutely no problem making my hoppers hit the water with a real good splat; now if you want something delicate, I’m at a loss.
Regards,
Scott
I am with coach and cutts. All my hoppers are foam, and I have no complaints. The caster is responsible for how the fly enters the water, and it is certainly easy enough to splat a big fat foam fly into the surface against the bank. These are trout after all, not physicists.
… forgot to weigh the hopper before I presented it here with no splat at all …
… and this deaf and dumb trout …
… still went after it and ate it.
Just my luck.
John
P.S. A couple other trouts have fallen for that trick the past few years. :roll:
You are correct in the fact that the auther was talking about flat water and I forgot to mention that, my bad. I also neglected to say that he also went over a number of cast that would make the hopper hit the surface with a little more force, again my bad. I did however think his observation is correct as far as the weight goes. I myself have used many foam hoppers and caught fish all the time. That is one big fat trout. I would love to fish those dumb and deaf trout myself.
… for the record, my comments are in no way intended to refer to the Jay-Dave Hopper. Jay Buchner has a well deserved reputation as an outstanding fly angler and tier from the Intermountain West.
The problem I had all day long before posting here was doing the math. 1 grain is 1/7000 th of a pound. So 1 grain is 1/437 th of an ounce. So 2 grains is about 1/215 th of an ounce.
I can’t even begin to imagine what weighs 1/215 th of an ounce. Maybe a few extra deer hairs on the pattern shown in my fish porn ?? Maybe the difference between a straight eye hook and a down eye hook ??
So it’s not at all about the Jay-Dave Hopper. It’s about reality. Flat water or ripping. Sure, in some situations that “splat” will have some importance. Maybe 1/215 th of an ounce worth ?? :evil:
John
… if the article in Fly Fisherman mentioned fishing foam hoppers when …
… there is ice on the water …
… and the slush ice might muffle any splat from any weight hopper …
… but that the fishies might still eat them …
… given the chance ?? Like on November 28 this year ?? :shock:
John
That whole weight difference between a foam hopper and a real hopper sounds like an April Fool’s article to me. The foam hopper being light by 2 or 3 GRAINS.
Three grains is .007 of an ounce. If a person was able to make perfectly identical casts, time after time, the wind would make impose more than a 3 grain difference on the fly hitting the water.
If the argument was made that the 3 grains changed how deep the fly floated in the film, then the size (volume) of the fly would make a big enough difference to alter the buoyancy. Hence, making if float higher or lower in the water.
It is human nature to see the world from your own perspective. I have not read the article but I can agree in some respects.
When noise attracts a fish and the fish hits the fly, my view is that is a reaction strike.
Foam flies take fish but foam flies do not take many fish in some circumstances. Real hoppers ride low in the water and not high in the water. My favorite hopper is the Henry’s Fork Hopper, designed by Mike Lawson to fool the picky rainbows of the Henry’s Fork. I think position in the water is more important than the splat, but if you have the right BMI or body mass index for the fly, it should both land and float like a real hopper.
In my view foam hoppers are great for fast water, and for fishing from drift boats when you can show the fly to a lot of fish. They are not as good as a Henry’s Fork Hopper if you are stalking a spring creek.
The way to judge a fly in my view is by the number of times a fish comes up to look at the fly, but refuses it. The more refusals, the less it imitates a real hopper. It looks good enough to attract a fish but on closer inspection there is something not quite right,
I think they are flies for different situations.
I love the bottom fly. You are right about the moving water but, in flatter water I think the point he was making was to attact the fish. I moving water such as mountian streams, the fish don’t have time to study the fly. Also, in flat water, you need to be able to imitate movement of the hopper. The article was in the Fly Fisherman Mag. and I just thought it was interesting and for what it’s worth, every post has been correct in it’s own instances and I enjoy the feedback. Yours however was more precise and agreement to what the auther was trying to get across. Thank you.
By the way, is that the Henry’s Hopper in the bottom pic?
If you are going to compute the effect of 3 grains you are going to need to take into consideration how the temperature of the water has increased or decrease the relative density of the water. If you are going to do that you really need to find some constructive to do with your time. IMHO
I certainly hope everyone takes my following comments in the spirit they are intended. SELF-DEPRECATING HUMOR!!!
I think it has finally happened…the flyfishing community has apparently completely ran out of things to overthink. 2 or 3 grains? Really?
When my feable attempts at casting a fly become consistant enough that that miniscule amount of weight actually has an affect on the way a fly hits the water I will have finally ARRIVED as a flyfisher!
Now let’s talk about what really happens when a hopper hits still water.
First, it never intended to go there. It’s there because it fell in quickly. [Hoppers are herbivores and will consume a wide variety of terrestrial plants. They get water from the foods they eat.] It’s not going to be a long fall otherwise the hopper would have flown before hitting the water. Consequently, the insect’s first reaction is “oh-oh” and it will freeze for an instant while it tries to figure out why the world around it has suddenly changed. After this OMG moment, it will try to separate itself from the surface film with frantic movements. Then it will stop to see if it made the world change back. When that hasn’t happened, it will focus on the shore or a branch or straw and try (frantically) to reach that structure. It will do this several times before it lies quietly. [Unless the hopper’s entire body is underwater, it will not drown because it breathes through air tubes, called spiracles, along the sides of the abdomen and the thorax which open to allow oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange.] After a short rest, the hopper will try again to escape and will continue to do so until eaten or wind blown to an escape path.
Which means what?
A hopper fly’s retrieve should imitate this pattern.
That’s probably the most useful information I have gotten from a lawyer in years and it hasn’t cost me anything so far.
As far as the comments about “splating” the fly on the water, there are day when I can splat a size 20 Griffin’s Gnat.
It is Henry’s Fork Hopper that I color to match the color of hoppers in the location I am fishing. The Henry’s Fork Hopper has a white body so the colors on the fly are true to the color of the art markers you use.
Scott, come to the Idaho fish-in next year and we will put you on some of those fat cutties eating those foam (or whatever other one you desire) hoppers. John can’t catch ALL of em.
It is Henry’s Fork Hopper that I color to match the color of hoppers in the location I am fishing. The Henry’s Fork Hopper has a white body so the colors on the fly are true to the color of the art markers you use. Here’s the uncolored version.
Pattern here:
http://www.west-fly-fishing.com/fly-pattern-recipe/dry/henryshopper.shtml
Mike Lawson says:
“The pattern you use is very important when fishing hoppers and crickets on spring creeks.Large, high-floating flies designed for visibility usually won’t work very well. Natural grasshoppers float in the surface film, not on it, sort of like an iceberg. These days every good fly tier has his own hopper pattern so there are lots of good ones available. My favorite is still the one I developed almost 25 years ago, before there were so many other great patterns to choose from. Its called the Henry’s Fork Hopper and incorporates the use of elk hair to form the bullet shaped head and segmented body. It floats low in the surface film exactly like a natural. I tie it in several color variations as well as a black cricket pattern. Another consideration with regard to fly pattern is the size of the fly. I believe small hoppers will be much more productive on spring creek waters than large ones.”
http://www.henrysforkanglers.com/index.php/resources/stories_articles/time_for_terrestrials
I have found his advice to be right on for spring creeks. I learned this lesson on Poindexter’s Spring Creek near Dillon, MT. The fish refused several hopper patterns but took the first Henry’s Fork Hopper that I presented.
Another fact about hoppers is that they drown just like ants. A sunken hopper can take fish that will refuse a floating hopper. Just like sunken ants, and sunken damsel flies take fish, sunken hopper can work on fish that will refuse a floating hopper.
Here’s food for thought:
[i]“Terrestrial insects are not designed to float,” said George Kesel, who owned Missoula’s Four Rivers Fly Shop until it closed this spring. "When they hit the water, unless the surface film catches them, they go straight through. Whereas caddis and stoneflies and mayflies, they’ve all evolved to float…
And Kesel has another unique - at least to me - suggestion. He likes to fish grasshoppers, as well as ants and beetles, beneath the surface, like a nymph…
Cox has tried the same tactic.
“I’ve done that in the swirlies quite a bit, in the foam eddies, and it’s pretty effective,” Cox said. “When I move into food collection areas, it can be very good.”
There are hopper patterns that are tied specifically to be fished beneath the surface, like the conehead drowned hopper. Kesel ties his own, but has suggestions for those who don’t.
“Buy a grasshopper without a post, without any strike indicators to it,” he said. “Make sure it’s a low floater, coat it with something to make it sink and then fish it just like you would a nymph.”
[/i]
http://www.ravallirepublic.com/lifestyles/recreation/article_65f0d374-ca14-11e0-9650-001cc4c03286.html
“In truth, trout probably eat more sunken crickets and grasshoppers than they do floating ones… Over the years I have had similar experiences on other rivers and have many times converted the fishless floating grasshopper and cricket patterns to deadly sinking patterns by letting them get soggy.”
Gary Lafontaine wrote about sunken hoppers in The Dry Fly New Angles pg 289.
“That night I devised a submerged hopper pattern. We took fish all morning next day.”
Thank you for the post. It was a very good read and I like the Henry’s fork hopper