Does anyone dress/tie nymphs without weight materials?
I have been re-reading a few of the older books on nymphs lately and Skues, Leisenring etc
did not have weight on their nymph patterns, although Sawyer did use copper wire on his original Pheasant tail nymph.
That was much later in the 1950s, but none of Skues or Leisenring’s were weighted.
Here in NY State I have found that just the copper ribbing wire is what I use most on pheasant tails. No bead and no other body weighting. On Hare’s ears I prefer the opposite.
Absolutely, and at times they are most effective. In the majority of waters I fish, however, the water is fast enough that weighted nymphs are usually going to perform better.
I tie both. But I catch 10 times more on Beadhead patterns.
I never weight my nymphs, and except for one scud pattern never tye a bead pattern. I dont really consider fine wire weight.
RE> …to weight or not to weight, that is the plunktion
I think it depends on context. When the fish are dimpling near the surface there isn’t much need for weight.
On our northern rocky mountain tailwater rivers (Big Horn, Missouri, etc)–when the fish aren’t dimpling near the surface many local fishermen switch to a streamer rig while others go to fishing small nymphs in deep water, especially so with bright, twinkly flashback thingies. But usually with no more than a small bead for weight, if any weight at all. To get deep with small un-weighted flies you have to fish a sink tip line with a short leader or put split shot on longer dry fly leader. But not on the fly. Not enough weight to get deep anyway. Another strategy is to fish two flies at once where one fly is a “sparkplug” fly. I do that a lot. I make extra-heavy and extra-sparsely dressed Crazy Charlies using solid nickel barbell eyes. And then hang a two foot tippet off the bend of the Crazy Charlie hook. And put a small beadhead on the point.
I seldom catch more than one or two fish all day long on the Crazy Charlie. But they’re more often than not the two biggest fish of the day. Split shot hasn’t caught a fish yet, going on a century or two by now.
I’m with Pettendrigh on this one. You fish the portion of the water column in which the fish are feeding. Sometimes that means no weight, others it’s a beadhead, a beadhead with splitshot, 2 beadheads, a sinking line…or “D” all of the above. I prefer to fish without splitshot whenever possible…mainly for casting reasons, but as was stated, a fly can catch fish…splitshot won’t.
I kinda like dredging two flys (3 where legal) that are close to the size, shape and color of the naturals. Big fish sometimes like them aswell. I suppose it comes down to preferance.
I do, but what do you call adding weight? I have some really heavy hooks, ones that will get down without any added weight.
Here’s an example, first an unweighted for just under the surface.
and one that will go down, a lot!
One observation is that the people you mentioned would fish their unweighted flies upstream The action of the current will push the fly down. If you fish them downstream then the current lifts the fly. That’s when you really need the weight.
Most times fish will take flies fished in either the top or bottom few inches of the water. If the fish are showing on top then Its unweighted at the top, if not I steadily increase weight until I’m on the bottom. I tie far more with weight for only one reason. I loose far more on the bottom. Probably 4 or 5 to one compared to unweighted.
Cheers,
A.
I have a fair number of unweighted nymphs, not counting spiders. However, I do have weighted ones too. I used to try and use thread colour to code which were weighted and which were not, but I’ve fallen out of that good habit. Now, it’s a bit of a mystery what’s going to happy when I cast one out!
- Jeff
Here is something I do when fishing a fast water current and want my fly to get down close to the bottom and it works great. As soon as your fly is past you and straight away down stream in the fast current, lower your rod tip down into the water and let the tip rest on the bottom and hold it there. This will allow the water to push down on your fly line and as you watch your fly line, it will disappear. Your fly line, leader and tippet is now either on the bottom or very close to it. Now you just do some slow strips on your fly line and work your fly back. I have caught many fish doing this. The most important thing to remember is that when you feel the strike, DO NOT set the hook with the fly rod! The weight of the water on top of your rod could break it. Do a strip set and slowly raise your rod and once it has cleared the water you land the fish like you normally do. I have fished some fast water sections that I just knew had to hold fish and never get a strike. Lowered the rod tip into the water and strip the fly back and started catching fish. Try it. It works!
velly intellesting (underwater rod tip black magic).
I like the idea that an unweighted nymph will move around with the current more simulating the natural, or a vulnerable natural. You can add a weighted nymph, split shot or whatever above it to control the depth you want to fish or the zone.
Fishing big, deep, fast freestones pretty much requires lots of weight. I fish primarily big stonefly nymphs - with 14-15 wraps of .035 non-lead wire or 22-24 wraps of .025 non-lead wire. Even with that kind of weight, you’re not always sure you are getting to the bottom, and casting well above the “target zone” to give the fly a better chance to get there is a good idea.
In shallower, slower, softer water, my preference is to use as little weight as possible, if any. If I do trail a smaller nymph off a stonefly nymph, it will be an unweighted one.
John
P.S. Warren - you wouldn’t want to be standing in some of the rivers out here trying to get the tip of your rod to touch the bottom. :shock:
John,
"P.S. Warren - you wouldn’t want to be standing in some of the rivers out here trying to get the tip of your rod to touch the bottom. :shock: "
Why not? Is it against the law?
You do not need to “touch the bottom” with your fly rod tip to get this to work. As long as your floating fly line is on top, that is where your fly will be in fast water. If you push your rod tip beneath the surface only 1 foot, that will put your fly 1 foot deeper and that may be where the fish are holding. This will not work if you are trying to do it across the water. It only works when your fly and fly line is straight away from you down river. Most people cast upstream and allow the fly to drift down and past them. Once it is straight away down river from them, they pick up and make another cast. All I am asking you to try is once your fly is straight down river from you in the fast water, lower your rod into the water (it does not need to touch bottom) and allow the water to roll over your fly line and drive it down. This will take your fly deeper. Think about this: If you are standing in 12" of fast water and out in front of you (down river) about 10 feet away, is where the water goes to 3 feet deep at the beginning of a pool, your fly line will be driven down with the current into the deeper hole which will allow your fly to look just like any other insect that has been caught up in the current and pushed down into the deeper water at the head of the pool. Fish will hold at the head of a pool waiting for prey that has been caught up in the current and driven down into the pool. They also hold at the tail end of the pool (close to the bottom) waiting for prey being brought up from the depth of the pool by the current.
All I am asking is to at least try this one time before saying it will not work. It is really a lot of fun watching the fly line just disappear and as you are stripping the fly back, while doing this, you will feel the fly ticking bottom. I have done this in all depths of fast water and it does work and your PSC is a good fly to try this with. You have to do this with a straight line. If you have an indicator on your line, it will not work. I have done this in fast water that was moving too strong and deep to get the rod tip down to the bottom, but, I would push the rod under water as far as I could and hold it there. Sometimes the rod would be arched up due to the current, but, the fly line and fly were deeper and I still caught fish.
I am not trying to convince anyone to do this. I am only asking you to try it. I know it is thinking "out of the box, but, it does work. At least it does for me…Now go try it at least one time.
That particular method is very successful here in CA on the Lower Owens River…it is called the “dip and strip”…bottom of the attached link:
http://sierradrifters.com/guide-tips
PT/TB 
… in some rivers …
… 6-8’ deep ( estimated ) and ripping…
… 3-5’ deep and really ripping.
John
P.S. In a lot of places, take a step off the bank and you’re in over your head.
I too seldom weight my nymphs but prefer to add a split shot when necessary
Hook’s by design are butt heavy, because of the mass of weight in the hooks curve and the spear that is under the hook shank. The hook shank needs a counter-weight of non-lead wire wrapped around the hook shank in the middle of the hook shank. I use 0.015 diameter non-lead weight wire. This this is use for all of my nymph patterns, and most of my emerger patterns. It is also used on my streamers and salmon hooks.
If you want a fly pattern that is not a true dry fly pattern to rest on/in the water film, then you need to wrap some buoyant material around the hook shank to help reduce the anchor weight caused by the hook’s curve and spear.
End result is a better presentation of the fly pattern when casting to the fish… ~Parnelli
Perhaps I am missing something in your post, but rather than add a material to every nymph/emerger I simply grease the leader. Just an opinion as I try to refrain from giving “absolutes”.