Plastic or Glass?

Fishing Techniques & Entomology
1

I all,

I need some advice.

I’m getting a new canoe this summer. What holds up better to time: Plastic (like Ram-X) or Fiber Glass?

I had a glass canoe for 15 years, stored it out of the sun and it was in perfect shape when it got stolen a year ago. I’m lookinig for a replacement. Not a white water super banana, nor a 3 keeled barge. The Coleman 17 ft seems to fit the ticket (stability, length, beam, price), but I was wondering if it holds up to the sun and heat as well. (my canoes spend whole weeks and weeks on the roof rack tightly lashed down.

Back when I did sea kayaking, rented plastic boats were prone to saging and bending under load in the sun. Do the ram-x canoes suffer form the same consideration?

Thanks very much for any advice.

2

Chris,
I used to own a Coleman canoe and I was very impressed by it’s toughness.
Doug

3

I own a Coleman Ram-X 15’ canoe that was stored outdoors upside down for years by the previous owners, and aside from being faded on the bottom, it’s been a good canoe (even though a bit heavy at 85#). It’s no good for speed, but it does make a great barge when we go on our weekend river trips. I’m looking for something a bit lighter and maybe shorter, since most of my canoing is by myself, and I have to load it on the roof of my Chevy Express 2500. Lots of grunting and groaning from this old guy.

Joe

4

Thanx you two.

The weight isn’t really a problem. I don’t portage much. The old canoe was +80 lbs. I’m looking at plastic instead of fiberglass 'cause I have a tendancy to drop it on rocks and stuff.

I like longer canoes so that there is room for two to cast.

Tight Lines!

5

Hi Chris
I have a fiberglass canoe (44 years old and way heavy :wink: ) and a plastic kayak
I don’t have any kind of fancy roof rack on my truck. I just strap my kayak directly onto the homemade aluminum rack on the truck cap.
I get dents.
So far, the dents have always popped right back out .
In colder temps it may take a bit longer, but no problems as of yet
I’ve read up on this and if your dents prove stubborn, you can pull them out with a little applied heat such as wet, hot towels or with direct heat as from a heat gun.

6

Thanks Dudley,

We knew that the dents in plastic WILL pull out after a friend cinched down some rented kayaks too tightly to the rack when it was +100 deg in the shade!

We used a toilet plunger greased up with Vaseline to pull the dents out before taking the boats back to the rental agency :eek:

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Toilet plunger and vasaline…Very resourceful! as well as something to keep in mind should the need ever arise…I own plastic…and had an old town discovery 16 without ever a probelem…It was a demo canoe used at the sportsman’s show in Harrisburg, Soon after the plastic’s first showed up…It was dropped from a high rise building on it’s nose…barely a mark on it. Also made the price more favorable and got many years of use outta that boat, before I sold it.

8

Hey Chris,
I have a Rogue River 14TK canoe that is made of polyethylene. It is a bit on the heavy side but I am here to tell you the plastic hulls are one tough item. I routinely launch mine from the rocky shore where my mooring slip is located. Yes, I have some scrapes along the keel but if they get too bothersome a little emery paper and some spray paint will make them disappear.

Ram-X is lighter but should have the same, if not better, toughness. Whatever you do please do not store the canoe on it’s side as that will warp it. Mine goes into winter storage inverted on saw horses.:smiley:

9

Hi Chris,

My recommendation is that you stay with fiberglass – if the choice is restricted to either glass or rotomould plastic.

I looked on-line at the newer Coleman canoes and it appears the Ram-X model boats weigh much less now than they did in the past. I don’t have any first-hand experience paddling the newer Colemans, but the old ones had a horrible problem with the soft plastic hull “oil canning”. If a boat hull is not rigid it can’t deliver the hydrodynamic benefits that its hull shape is capable of. Perhaps the newer Colemans use a different kind of plastic that is harder and thus solves the oil-canning problem.

Apart from that, I notice that the newer Colemans are outfitted with a molded plastic center seat station. This seat serves as the boat’s center thwart (instead of using a crosspiece, or crosspieces, made of metal tubing or wood shaft).

Personally I don’t like seeing canoes with raised center seats. This design is an open invitation for a third party to get on board, at which point you’ve got three people sitting high up in the canoe, each person contributing their own independent body movements? Very easy for all three to lean in one direction at the same time and tip the canoe over? Besides, a molded plastic center seat takes up valuable space that could be used for storing trip equipment (if you’re into doing wilderness style downriver tripping).

Whichever boat you decide on buying, it sounds like it’ll be exposed to a lot of ultraviolet radiation. UV is a real killer on gel coats – just look at any older powerboat and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Faded and cracked, brittle and dull.

You can prevent that happening by periodically applying a product called 303 Protectant. It’s an ultraviolet protectant that comes in a pump spray bottle. Spray it on and rub it into the gel coat or plastic. This will go a long way to keeping your gel coat or plastic healthy.

Sorry your first glass boat got stolen. Maybe you’ll run into the thieves someday, when you’re close enough to a phone that you can drop a dime on 'em.

Joe
“Better small than not at all.”

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Thanks Eric and Joe.

I noticed too that one of the coleman models has the center thingy. It doesn’t really appeal to me either. (How does one portage the canoe with the “bench” in the middle)

As for three in a canoe … Never for us. If I’m ferrying family or friends around, we do multiple crossings.
(see also: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/canada/can301.php)

As for UV protection, thanks for the tip.

Does anyone know http://www.canotsquessy.com/ ??

11

Wow! That Quessy is one beautiful canoe. Besides its raw attractiveness, it has a couple of features that are very useful to the owner. One of these features I’ve seen on just one other canoe.

The first would be those upward curving carry thwarts, located at each end? The shape of these give relief to the hand when you and your partner are carrying the boat (one person on each end) with your carry arm hanging straight down. The upward curved shape of the grab thwarts lets the canoe pendulum in the hand during the carry; there is no lateral strain on the wrist.

The other feature really blows me away. Take a look at the center thwart; immediately aft of the center thwart you see what at first appears to be a secondary cross-thwart (between the center thwart and the stern seat). Actually, this is a kneeling thwart intended for use by a lone paddler who is propelling this tandem canoe in the solo style.

Notice that this kneeling thwart is suspended on each end by hangers? This lowers the thwart so that when you rest your butt on it your body mass is automatically positioned lower in the boat (which lowers the boat’s center of gravity and balance, thus improving stability).

And…look below this kneeling thwart and you will see foam kneeling pads that the manufacturer has glued onto the bilge surface. No need for you to buy aftermarket pads to keep your knees comfortable while paddling solo style; this boat comes with kneeling pads already installed! This kneeling thwart/kneeling pad design is very well thought out and executed.

Plus…it looks like bow (and probably stern) kevlar skid patches are standard equipment on this model. These durable, abrasion-resistant patches are very useful protective devices, especially important to have on any canoe in the area of the world where you live. Due to past glacier actions that have scrubbed away much of Canada’s topsoil, most of the places where people go canoeing you encounter granite stones and formations. Granite is a rock with absolutely NO sense of humor when a canoe hull comes in contact with it.

Anyway, this is a really beautiful, highly functional boat – both for tandem paddling and solo paddling.

My only general complaint about canoes with all-wood trim is that they have a higher need for regular maintenance. Especially the gunwales. If you buy one of these puppies, Chris, I suggest you make a spot for it inside your garage or under an awning – anyplace where you can store it away from sun, rain and snow.

Someplace out of sight would be nice, too. If your first boat looked good enough to attract thieves, think how they’ll drool if they spot this baby strapped on your roof rack.

Joe
“Better small than not at all.”

12

Joe,

Add also the sliding bow seat to balance the load.

I believe the home page shows one of their top of the line jobs. I prefer aluminum fitting because my gear gets pretty abused :frowning:

As for the stolen boat, … It was sort of my fault leaving it hidden in the woods for 3 months :confused:. I’m looking for a place to store the new one as the new apartment doesn’t have a garage.

13

Chris,

Yeah, I like aluminum trim better, too. It’s not as pretty, that’s for sure, but a lot more utilitarian.

Maybe Quessy makes this canoe with aluminum gunwales while still maintaining the wood center thwart, carry thwarts, kneeling thwart and seats? That would be nice.

I can’t read, write or speak Spanish and my French is even worse. But from looking at the pamphlet link I would hazard a guess that this canoe is made in French-speaking Quebec. If that’s the case, then due to their strong sense of independence I would not expect the company to make available an English language version of that pamphlet.

Whether that’s the situation this is really a beautiful canoe, one I’ve never seen while exploring canoes on-line. Could be I just missed it, is all.

Very nice boat.

Joe
“Better small than not at all.”

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Actually I’m pretty lucky. In the region here, there are a dozen or so makers. Mostly fiberglass. I’m moving on monday-tuesday, … then I’ll start seriously looking over the different shops.

15

I’ve been white watering and fishing out of my Blue Hole, an ABS white water canoe, for well over 25 years… and I purchased it used! No glass boat would have survived the abuse this boat has taken over the years… and it still looks pretty good!

As a white water canoe’s high profile catches too much wind, it isn’t the best for fishing, but an ABS boat kept out of the direct sun is indistructible. Even if ya’ don’t give it proper care, the life of an ABS canoe can be extremely long. My Blue Hole has never been 'treated right", i.e. stored indoors or under cover, but rather, it has spent almost all of its life “up under the bushes” or just shaded in the filtered light of my huge oak. It’s faded a little, but the vinyl and ABS is still in excellent shape.

Beside glass boats are too heavy, “grab” rocks and dump ya’ when ya’ least expect it, and crack upon impact with solid objects.

Oh yeah, and the gel coat of a glass boat doesn’t hold up too well to long term exposure to direct sun… I own that tee shirt also.

my two cents…

Bowfin47

PS

While oysters will chaff and scratch glass and plastic, plastic is still more forgiving of the damage.