Pepper spray incident

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
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We’ve had some serious problems recently with Cougars in the area – they have been spotted close to houses, one nabbed a 100 lb. husky dog right from a porch a month ago (the dog lived, the lion was shot). Bears around too. Everyone up here on the mountain enjoys outdoor activities like hiking, biking, fishing, camping, backpacking, that’s why we live in such a remote area. So it’s pretty much de rigeur to carry a pistol. Those who don’t like guns carry pepper spray, some carry both.

Our neighbor was out hiking with her 8-year-old daughter this afternoon. They heard something snapping branches in the thick willows right behind them. Mom drew the pepper spray bottle, and took off the safety. Whatever it was went the other direction. She said, “Let’s get out of here and run home FAST.” She didn’t replace the safety.

Do you see where this is going?

Yep, somehow while running home she sprayed her 8-year old daighter right in the face with the pepper spray. Sounds dumb, but stuff like that happens in a split second and can happen to anyone. Her daughter was in agony for over an hour, they were still 1/4 mile from home when it happened. After about 30 minutes and 15 gallons of water flushing her eyes and face, the girl was just fine, she came over here for a visit just a few minutes ago and was all smiles. While they were treating her, Dad tasted the pepper spray from her forehead–he said it burned his tongue worst than the strongest habanero pepper sauce he’d ever tried.

The Moral: treat pepper spray like it was a gun. It won’t kill you, but for a while you’ll WISH you were dead!

Here’s one of the kitties that’s been prowling around here, the photo is from an automatic game camera. Note the shredded ears, this one’s been around the block a few times.

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Now I’m not knowledgeable about how to leave an area after spotting a mountain lion but from what I’ve read, the reaction of predators to a ‘prey reaction’(running away), I’d say the mother did 2 things wrong.

Allan

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My thoughts too!

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:frowning:
Danbob;
That is a very powerful looking cat! The ear damage could be from frost bite. I have an out door cat that has ears like that after a very cold winter a couple of years ago.
A shot of pepper spray in the eyes can be very painful. But, what if it had been a pistol with the safety off?
I’ve heard tales of campers spraying down their gear and tents with pepper spray in an attempt to keep bears at bay without knowing that they realy like that stuff!! Just not in the eyes!

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Yep always walk away from a cat, Few years ago I was jogging and had to spray a dog, next night jogging along (always carried it in my hand) and wiped some sweat from my eye. I can attest that it burns, also used it in Law Enforcement. I truely feel sorry for that girl.

Eric

6

We had an incident involving perpper spray at work a few weeks ago. I work as a forestry consultant in Alberta. I would carry a pistol certain times of the year in certain locations, but the red tape involved in aquiring and to have the proper carry permits is a headache in Canada. I will eventually get everything sorted out so I can buy and carry a pistol in the bush, but for now I carry pepper spray like most of the other guys I work with.

Our incident at work was also a case of no safety on the canister. My work partner had just lost his safety off of the canister. Brand new 2 days old and he somehow lost the saftey. He didn’t want to toss it dispite my warning that it was unsafe and should be tossed however he did agree to keep it out of the cab of the truck. He was storing it in the back of our quad (ATV) in the little tool compartment under the seat.

We had a really hot weekend and he forgot it in the back all weekend, and either the heat or because of the missing safety it was discharged in the back compartment of the quad. We were unloading the quad from the back of the truck when he noticed a smell, he opened the compartment and the vapours were pretty strong. We let the wind carry it away for a while but had to use the quad for work that day covered in pepper spray and I can attest to how uncomfortable it was to work with the fumes lingering all day.

I got home and hosed it down for near an hour and it still isn’t fully gone a week latter. I too did the finger lick of the stuff and it’s pretty spicy stuff, almost be good in chilli…lol. Its a sweet chilli almost sweet and spicy. Which would make me belive that the stories I have heard about bears liking the taste and smell once the heat of the pepper spray has subsided. Apparently they happen to be attracted to pepper spray after it has disapated.

I heard one story of a forestry crew in northern British Columbia ending up accidentally spraying their GPS unit back in the day they were really expensive. They cleaned the unit off with soap and water but there must have been a smell as a few weeks latter they left it at a helipad in the middle of the bush for a few hours. When they returned a huge grizzly was chewing on it like a chew toy and licking it. I heard it ended up costing more to fix that old GPS than it was to buy a new one.

Another story which is from a close friend who was a tree planting supervisor. He had some planters have a run in with a bear and have to use thier spray. He went back into that block a few days latter to do quality checks only to find a bear eating the ground where it was sprayed only a few days prior. The same bear that had been sprayed was back at the scene liking up the spray that put him on the run.

Bear spray or Pepper spray which ever name you use is still pretty nasty stuff. Basically the same as the stuff used in law enforcement, only Bear spray is stronger I think. Bear spray I know comes in a few different strengths 0.75% and 0.85% capsicum. I did actually happen to experience what the stuff feels like years ago when I was accidently sprayed by a friend of my brothers fooling around with a can of pepper spray when we were in Highschool at my parents house. I went to get the can from him because he was fooling around with it and some how the safety had fallen off and I got sprayed at point blank range. It took all of 10-20 seconds till I was totally incapacitated from the spray and I was 6’2" 240lbs at the time. Needless to say i was very mad at the guy who sprayed me but there was nothing i could do at the time because of the spray. This stuff is not to be played with and should be treated like a loaded gun.

I’m a pretty big guy and it put me on the ground I can’t amagine how bad it would have been for that little girl.

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While stationed at Fort Huachuca Arizona, I was selected to be the backup rifleman, for the Game Management People, for their annual “Cougar Survey” on the base. The Huachuca Mountain Range, is the last part of the Rocky Mountains, before it crosses into Mexico. The Huachuca Mountain Range is on Government/Military Land. I was the guy with the gun with the real bullets, standing behind the man with the gun with the darts. If he missed, and the Cougar charged, I would only get one shot off.

Running away from a Cougar, is silly. You cannot outrun a Cougar. They are vicious animals, with deadly claws. They can snap your neck with one bite. I have read reports of Grizzly Bears, giving wide berth to a Cougar. I do not think a handgun would be of use against a Cougar, as the round would not have enough impact energy, to kill.

If you are in remote areas, you play by their rules, not yours…sometimes you are not on the top of the food chain.

Parnelli

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Pepper spray is very popular with mail carriers.

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Although there is a smaller chance of seeing a cougar around here than bears or wolves, Ive seen enogh sign of cougars to be aware of thier precense while working. I’d personally rather encounter a grizzly than cougar. At least I’m familiar with bear behavior and know how they react, cougars to me are too un predictable. I carry spray now but when I actually get all my papers in order I will be picking up a Handgun in the .44 or .45 cal range.

-Hillard

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I am reminded of the advise I got years ago from an old timer. In order to avoid being mauled by wildlife you should attach a bell to your belt so that you don’t surprise them, and carry pepper to throw in their faces as a last resort.

You should also know your scats. Brown bear scats are relatively small and often contain small sticks. Frequently they smell something like fish. Grizzly scats are much bigger, smell like pepper, and often contain little bells.

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Silverback,

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Allan

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An oldy but a Goody!

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My son is a police officer, and as a demonstration to all the grandkids as to why you should “comply” with the police when “requested”, sprayed a micro puff of pepperspray into the air away from us, and we were all still gagging and coughing hours later. Sure got our attention!!

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Pepper spray does not have the same effect on most animals as it does on humans. It can enrage them and make them more determined.

Actually, humans run very little danger of being attacked by cougers, or any wildlife for that matter. In the rare cases where it does happen, it is almost always a result of a provocation (unintentional or otherwise), or a sick animal(rabies, injuries, mental imbalance, etc…). Again, it is an extrememely rare occurrance, and the media does not help. They blow it up way out of porportiion and make it seem like these preditors are just waiting for you to come to the woods so they can snatch your children. Poppycock! We need to remember that this is thier home. We (except in a few cases, like mine) are just temporary visitors. They have a right to go about their lives just like we do.

I have spent most of my life outdoors from the time I could walk. I live in a remote Wilderness area and deal with these animals on a daily basis, and I have never been attacked unless I provoked it (like dragging a Bobcat out of a hole at age 9. That was a fight! I won, but I still have the scars 40 years later! It’s on my list of “Really Stupid Things I’ve Done”). Here’s good advice. If you feel threatened by an animal…any animal, whether it is a cow, dog, wolf or what-ever, just look them square in the eyes (do not break eye contact…ever!), pick up hand-sized rocks and let 'em fly. Also, if you can, keep a tree between you and the animal. After a few times of getting beaned with rocks, they will learn to steer clear of people.

Whatever happens, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RUN OR TURN YOUR BACK ON THE ANIMAL!

If you wish to retreat (which is usually the best course of action), BACK away slowly, talking to the animal in a soothing voice, until you are well clear of it’s range or it is out of sight. Do not make any sudden movements or loud noises (contrary to what you might have been told). Most animals will interpret that as a challenge. Try not to raise your hands above the animals head, and try to act very submissive.

In the event of an actual attack, remember, you are the apex preditor on the planet. You can bite, grab, kick, use weapons like sticks and rocks, and have a knowledge of anatomy. Go for the eyes first. Throw sand, rocks, etc… Use these tools to good advantage. In addition, you should never go into the wilderness without a least 1 good, large (4" blade and up), sharp knife. I recommend anything made by Cold Steel. That’s the brand to have when your life depends on it. This can even dispatch a bear in an emergency (with a little creativity). 50’ of rope is also a good thing to have. It makes a very good weapon.

Of course, tha absolute best way to avoid a confrontation is to not be there. Pay attention to your surroundings and listen to the sounds of the forest. If birds suddenly go quiet, somethings up (unless you caused it yourself). If birds take flight suddenly, somethings up. Leave the area. Birds are a wonderful Early Warning Device. lf you have a well disciplined dog, bring it with you. Dogs are also wonderful Early Warning Devices. Your dog must be able to obey commands without hesitation, however. The dog should be trained to ‘Come’, ‘Heel’, ‘Stop’ (whatever they are doing, such as atacking, etc…) and ‘Stay’. No dog should be in the woods until they can obey these commands.

Semper Fi!

Semper Fi!

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I know there will always be different opinions on exactly what to do in these situations, but isn’t it true that you should never, EVER make eye contact with a bear? I would think the same would go for other animals…they would perceive this as a threat.

I also think most situations probably develop much too quickly to make rocks, rope (???), or even a sheathed knife very effective.

Personally, if I was ever charged by a wild animal, I think I would first calmly soil my pants, then hopefully faint (would be easy to play dead if I was unconscious). If not, I’d have no choice but to charge and go for the jugular or another sensitive area depending on the gender of the critter.

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mtangler, I think my response would be the same as yours.
The main thing is never run! That’ll trigger any predator into attack mode.

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I know there will always be different opinions on exactly what to do in these situations, but isn’t it true that you should never, EVER make eye contact with a bear? I would think the same would go for other animals…they would perceive this as a threat.

I also think most situations probably develop much too quickly to make rocks, rope (???), or even a sheathed knife very effective.

Personally, if I was ever charged by a wild animal, I think I would first calmly soil my pants, then hopefully faint (would be easy to play dead if I was unconscious). If not, I’d have no choice but to charge and go for the jugular or another sensitive area depending on the gender of the critter.[/quote]

Cougar confrontation tips on PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/cougar/attacks.html#tips

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On another forum someone say that the encounters with bears is about the same number as the encounters with cougars.

Anyone have a source listing the number of each?

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Gigmaster ? when you say not to raise your hands above the animal does that apply to Black Bear? We were told by NY State Park staff that if a Black Bear seems to not be afraid of people then the person, or a group of people, should stand side by side, raise their hands to look bigger and make as much noise as possible. These instructions were to deal with Black Bears in a state campground that have developed a lack of fear of people. They also said if that does not work to back away facing the bear still making noise and trying to look big. Finally, they said that although a Grizzly Bear may make a bluff charge a Black Bear will not bluff. So if a Black Bear is charging you are in for a fight. What do you think about those instructions for Black Bear?

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Every bad situation bear enounter I have had personally has been with a mother and cubs. Almost always it has been in thick brush and they were surprised. Both times I have found myself in this situation I had pepper spray but never used it ( I think of it a a last resort) and Both times they were black bears.

I encounter many bears in the run of a year due to my occupation. I have found that black bears will give a false charge, but every bear is different and every situation is different. I usally have a few close encounters a year dispit taking all the precautions I can. I carry spray and wear bells but just the odds of me stumbling across bears is high due to my work in remote locations. Every time I have had an encounter with black bears I have done the aggressive yell and looked big and they backed off, it was only once that I was charged by a mother with cubs. I did not know she has a cub who was behind me through thick brush ( the worst situation) and was very lucky she stopped before she hit me. She stopped only 5 feet of where i was standing and it is not something I will forget ever and it has been 5 years since this incident.

A major problem locally is the amount of oil and gas exploration and expansion into wilderness that bears and cougars have traditionally lived in. Every year more and more wildlife is being pressed out of the deep bush into areas frequented by humans more and more. These displaced animals are beginning to be use to people and are less apt to run. These animals are the dangerous ones. I have had more trouble with bears within 50km of town ( On logging roads) than I have had 150km out in real wilderness.

I’d much rather run into a grizzly that has rarely seen people than a black bear use to people. Atleast the grizzly will probably run…

-Hillard