I’d like to get into tying standard wet flies with partridge hackle. My question: Will those $2.50 bags of partridge sold by Cabela’s and other online outfits get the job done? I only ask because the guy at my local fly shop (naturally) recommended I buy a $30 partridge skin, but I’ve already sunk enough loot into tying materials that I’d like to avoid that if possible, especially with my first batch of wets.
Thanks,
Dave
There are feathers in the bag that will work. The trick in starting out is knowing which ones are good and which to throw away. Like you, I got one of those bags of feathers and, with the help of other tyers, learned which feathers could be used. I now use whole skins that I buy either from ebay or from my fly shop. Sometimes you can get a half skin that is affordable and will be a lot of feathers. The other advantage to a skin is that you can size the feather to the hook more easily without dragging a hunderd feathers out of a little plastic bag to find the right one, then trying to get them all back in undamaged. See if you can’t get at least a half skin - you’ll be happier in the long run.
TxEngr
[This message has been edited by TxEngr (edited 03 May 2006).]
For your first batch I would say they would be alright. I use those fairly regularly and you can usually get some descent hackles out of them. The biggest probelm i’ve found with them is there usually aren’t enough descent, smaller hackles.
djamieson,
If you are looking to tie soft hackle flies, consider Conranch Hackle. Their JV hens are first rate and are excellent hackle for soft hackle flies. I think they are about $20 each. Here is a link to their website: [url=http://www.conranch.com/jvhens.html:660aa]www.conranch.com/jvhens.html[/url:660aa]
The bags will work ok but in the long run the skin is a much better bargain. Many more usable feathers in more sizes. It’s one material I would not be without. So my suggestion is to buy the skin.
Turk
Dave,
Generally, I’d say don’t buy the bags of feathers. However, it depends on the size of the flies you’re going to tie. If you’re just starting and will be tying size 10 - 12, you’ll probably be able to use what’s in the bag. Anything smaller and I’d say you’re better off with a skin. Or, as others have suggested, get an inexpensive hen neck. Obviously it’s to your advantage to be able to examine a neck before buying it. Regardless, a neck will have a wider range of sizes and better quality than the packages of feathers.
Allan
While $30 sounds a bit high for a partridge skin (most I’ve seen are $19-24, even cheaper from places like [url=http://www.hideandfur.com/:a9ac6]http://www.hideandfur.com/[/url:a9ac6] ), this is one skin that you will use over and over again.
Nothing is more tedious than trying to sort through those bags of loose hackle trying to find one that will fit.
-whatfly
About $24 is about right price. Packaged loose feathers are a waste. For a fair alternative try a “Mottled Hen Back” as sold by H&H or Flyfisher’s Paradise for about $4. The feathers are quite large however.
You might find Whitings Farms Brahma Hen Saddles and Necks a useful alternative.
I get mine from a dealer over here in the UK and they (saddles) cost 8.50 British Pounds, that is about $14.84 at todays tourist rate.
Here is the site of my supplier, it will give you some idea of the colours available:- [url=http://www.lakelandflytying.com/acatalog/copy_of_Whiting_Brahma_Saddle.html:5c1e4]http://www.lakelandflytying.com/acatalog/copy_of_Whiting_Brahma_Saddle.html[/url:5c1e4]
And here are some of the flies I tied:- [url=http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page10.html:5c1e4]http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page10.html[/url:5c1e4]
[url=http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page53.html:5c1e4]http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page53.html[/url:5c1e4]
Donald/Scotland
[This message has been edited by Donald Nicolson (edited 04 May 2006).]
[This message has been edited by Donald Nicolson (edited 04 May 2006).]
Buy a little bag until you are sure that it does not meet your needs. Even a couple dozen soft hackle flies from one bag would be enough for me to get through a couple of seasons, because of all the other flies I like to fish with too.
That being said, I have bought full skins of birds over the years and split them and the cost with other flytiers. Perhaps if you have developed a list of tiers you communicate with by email you will find someone who will share the cost.
Peter F.
I would start with the bag of Partridge feathers and you will have plenty to get started. I have found that the shaft on many Partridge feathers a bit on the large size, making them somewhat difficult to wrap and much less user friendly. Hen hackles on the other hand have been bred for fly tying and have a much smaller shaft, making it easier to wrap. The hen hackles are also much cheaper and come in a wide variety of mottled colors so you can get much the same effect as you would using Partridge. Just a thought…
Jim Smith
I agree that the bag of feathers tends to work out pretty well for the first time user. Depending upon the bag, you could end up with a great selection of feathers. I’ve purchased two bags over the years. One was chock full of good feathers and the other one seemed to have the left overs. 
I’d also recommend the Whiting Brahma Hen Saddles. Very easy to work with and the coloring can be very close to partridge. I’ve also found the feathers are easier to work with than partridge…
[url=http://www.rockymtnfly.com:53100]- Rocky Mountain Fly -[/url:53100]
A skin is the best way to get an assortment of feathers for different size flies. These guys have good prices on partridge skins: [url=http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/3130.html:3bdbc]http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/3130.html[/url:3bdbc]
They may not be #1 prime birds, but at $5.95 they’re a bargain.
Regards,
ScottP
A skin is certainly the best and in the long term the cheapest way of buying partridge.
I do not agree that a hen hackle can replace partridge. It may look similar but its action in the water is completely different. The fibres of a hen hackle will drown very quickly, while a partridge hackle has a very lifelike action.
I sometimes buy pouches of loose game hackle, because that is the only way that it is sold. Sometimes I find a unique hackle, such as “Almond Pheasant Hackle”, and wanting to try that on my Soft Hackle Wet Flies. Other times I buy a bag of dyed game hackle, not needing a whole skin, just to play around with. Other times, someone who likes me, sends me some rare feathers by mail (blue partridge, or matuka).
The fun part is that I sort and size the hackle, using plastic condiment containers (for banana peppers ect)that fit my muffin tin, for sorting. Sylvester Nemes, has a nice sizing chart of soft hackle wet hackle (size 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16), on page 98 of “The Soft-Hackle Fly Addict” (which I use for my sorting guide).
The chart displays the feathers on with the chickabou striped from the hackle.
SIZE/HEIGHT/WIDTH
Size 6/35mm/25mm
Size 8/30mm/20mm
Size 10/25mm/16mm
Size 12/20mm/14mm
Size 14/15mm/12mm
Size 16/13mm/9mm
I usually do the sorting in a room where there is no draft, and the door shut, so no loose hackle goes flying all over the place if someone walks by while sorting. It helps if you wear a ventilation mask, just in case you sneeze. ~Parnelli
Note: If you want a copy of the page, from my copy of Soft-Hackled Fly Addict, send me an Email “Soft-Hackle Fly Addict” include your complete mailing address.
[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 06 May 2006).]
I have to disagree with the statement about hen hackles not being suitable as a substitute for partridge. I have used Brahma hen and have been very satisfied. A great many spider patterns have hen as the specified hackle, I think that would not be so if the hen hackle was unsuitable. As a matter of fact, Roger Fogg in his book ‘A Handbook of North Country Flies’ gives a whole chapter on the use of hen hackles. He also stated that he preferred the Orange Woodcock to the Orange Partridge.
Of course all of this is purely a matter of opinion as very few of us ever actually check the flies in moving water, but to wholely condemn hen hackles seems rather precipitate.
This is the result of a little experiment I did to compare Pearsall’s Orange with Hot Orange, it has no real relevance(spelling?) with the above statement. [url=http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page56.html:e46de]http://www.dtnicolson.dial.pipex.com/page56.html[/url:e46de]
Donald/Scotland
Donald I was not dismissing the use of hen hackle out of hand. I also have discovered Brahma hen hackles.
I was saying that in my honest opinion the substitution of Partridge with hen hackle would be a mistake. Hen is much softer (even Brahma). A partridge spider has a certain action in our Northern Streams that I know Hen would not mimick. I use hen for all my winged wet flies or when I want a soft swept back hackle.
A partridge (or moorhen, woodcock etc) is much more mobile, and i think is much more attractive to fish. If I were a fish I would much prefer it myself. LOL…
I suppose woodcock would make an adequate substitute although it would be much darker in colour.
Well Mick,
I suppose if there is an adequate supply of Partridge at cheap enough prices I would agree with you, as a matter of fact most of my Partridge and Orange etc. are tied with Partridge, but Dave did state that he thought thirty dollars was a bit much for him as a beginner. I do not think that there is such a difference to warn him off Brahma, but as I said it’s all a matter of opinion.
As a result of this thread I’ve gone back to Fogg and he recommends looking for the poorest quality of hen cape as their fibres are coarser. He states that the old time tyers probably used standard farmyard hen feathers which would be coarse in the fibre.
A lot of the hen capes being sold are from stock bred to produce modern cock hackles for dry flies and are probably realy too fine. Of course the answer to fine hen fibres is to increase the number of turns and add a thorax, tight against the hackle.
I would recommed Fogg’s book to anyone as one of the best on materials info for North Country Spiders, it was only published in 1988 but is very expensive on the book market.It was not an expensively produced book, no photographs and the paper looks of very ‘average’ quality but the information is second to none. I was lucky I bought mine about a couple of years after publication. A public library copy is the best bet if you can’t afford to buy.
p.s. I had a look on ABBooks, the price runs between $67(35BP) and $104(55BP). Gulp!!
Donald/Scotland
[This message has been edited by Donald Nicolson (edited 07 May 2006).]
Hi,
I’ve used partrige, hen, and pheasant feathers for hackles on SH patterns. All have caught fish for me and I can’t say one outperforms the rest. I’ve just recently picked up some woodcock wings, and have tied up a dozen or so with woodcock and they look nice and I’m sure they will perform well too.
If there are any other New Zealander’s out there, Pukeko feathers make good SH hackles as well.
Yes interesting about the old hen hackles Donald. I was always taught that the Yorkshire Spiders should be tied with as few turns of hackle as possible. Some of those I have seen have just one or at most one and a half turns, so they need a really stiff and mobile hackle.
I will attempt to get a copy of that book from the library. Sounds like interesting reading. I also enjoyed reading the bits from your website.
I would still urge David though to buy a skin. I am sure he can find one at a much better price than his original quote. He will not be dissapointed. Partridge are lovely feathers and so useful in all sorts of flies. They make excellent legs if tying copies of natural insects.