I didn’t want to highjack the thread about “0wt” and smaller blanks, so I’ll start this thread.
It seems more and more people are overlining todays fast blanks just to get them to load and cast decently. This leads me to the question of wether or not the blanks are actuall the line wt they are being sold as. I have a Dan Craft 1wt that is so fast it needs a 3wt line to load and cast decently, and my 4-piece 2wt needs a 3wt to load at all, and a 4wt to cast nicely. Any thoughts on this? Are the manufacturers intentionally mislabeling the blanks or is there something else going on here that I don’t understand? So much to learn…so little time.
Since it’s been an hour and noone has said anything …I will…I am far from an expert but these are thoughts that occur to me…
It seems to me it’s a good basic question but folks that should know have said they no longer see manufactured rods that don’t cast the designated wt the best…right JC?..but maybe rod blanks are different…
I would think that when a person says a rod wants overlining or not it is really the individual’s casting style that does.
I’m not a light rod person but I can imagine this scenario…the fishing conditions don’t demand long casts when one choses to use a o/1/2/3/ wt rod so is there a tendency not to carry 30ft in the air???
I think you hit the nail on the head ducksterman. These plastic rods are very fast and it is difficult to feel the rod loading with a short line out. Sorta like trying to load a broom stick with a clothesline rope for a line. My opinion is that for these tiny little rods, bamboo really shines. I made a 2 weight for a fellow this spring and it is great from 4 foot to 40 foot. The threes forus and fives I make are the same way. I don’t know that I would care to make a 1 weight or a 0 weight in bamboo. Maby glass would be a better choice.
Joe,
I always believed that rod manufactures underlined there rods/blanks to protect there warranty. That’s just my two cents.If you give a rod to a novice that loads a rod taper well into the blank it could fracture if to much line is out past the point of recovery.One time many years ago I watched a very well known flycaster at a sports show throw a line across the casting pool, every one was impressed with the distance and ease.I later found out the rod was a 7 wt. and line 9wt.
How’s that for an allusion.
As for myself i always go at least one number up on a fast taper blank/rod.
It sure was a relief to read this. Just got my first graphite rod (TFO 4wt), got really nervous when I tried to throw it with SA 4wt line. Bought a 5wt line at the same time, so hopefully that?ll improve things, and now I?ll be keeping my eyes open for a 6wt, just in case . . .
Bamboo & glass while sweet casting rods get kind of weird in the super light line weights. Try and get your hands on a Leonard Catskill Fairy or 36L sometime and you will see what I mean; VERY scary; extremely slow and we’re NOT talking about a 1 wt.
The mass of cane causes issues with action when you try and combine feel or loading with the ability to throw a respectable amount of 0-2wt line. I have bamboo rods that were built as 4wts; but most people who have test cast them tell me they would use a 2 or 3 wt on them because they are not used to s-l-o-w. So in this case; they would underline the rod so possibly a 3wt to them is REALLY a 4wt to the builder.
Glass in very light line weights can also get “floppy” if you try and get it to have enough backbone to cast a decent line but load at short distances. It’s the reason you just don’t see glass rods in those line weights. I have a few 3wt glass rods that are awesome and probably could cast a 2wt or even a 1 weight line but again; it isn’t the designed line weight and I don’t do the underline or over-line thing; I just buy ANOTHER rod.
As much as I hate graphite; it has the ability when designed properly to have the backbone to throw 0-2 wt lines without the sloppiness that SOMETIMES plagues grass or glass in the super light line weights. I just think that a lot of the modern blank builders just got it wrong and make EVERYTHING too fast.
If you ever get the opportunity to cast either a 7’6" 3wt Winston DL4 or an 8’0" Winston DL4 you will see that even though these are 3wts; they COULD easily throw a 2wt or possibly less they have so much flex. So graphite with feel in light line weights does exist; it’s just not common.
i just buy the SA GPX for my CANNON rods. i buy the line weight its rated for lets say my 6 weight. and i just get the 6weight sa line and its a half a line size heavier to properly load the rod. my rod loves that line.
Hello,
Many of the fast graphite rods today are in fact labeled one, two, or even more line weights lighter than they really are. This may have to do with the whole “parking lot” mentality. This is very apparent if one looks at the Common Cents System data base. Many of todays rods are designed by tournament casters who only know how to cast long distances. Rods are now being designed to fully load with the specified line weight out at 60 feet or more instead of the standard 30 feet. I for one can’t stand rods that are broom stick stiff line cannons. They have no feel or finesse. 95% of the fish I catch are inside of 40 feet, so I want a rod that loads well at 10 to 50 feet. The main problem I see is that the rod buying public is gobbling up these worthless distance casting rods. The rods with good tapers for actual fishing are starting to disappear.
The majority of my rods are big names (Sage, Winston, Orvis, etc) and of course Glass in Lamiglass, Steffen, and McFarland.
I want a fast rod for big flies and windy conditions, I buy a fast rod (BIIx and T3 tip flex) I want a nice small nymph, dry rod I buy a MID-Flex (Zero mid-flex, Winston LT, Sage LL, Steffen) I want a great dry fly rod I buy Bamboo, McFarland, and Lami also Full Flexed Graphite.
I go with the line printed on the rod in either a DT or a WF. I do not try to make the rod something else by changing line weight. But this is the expensive way about it LOL
Joe, I’m not sure which DC 1wt you have, but according to the CCS data the DC 7’ 1wt is really a 3wt and the 6’9" is a true 1wt. I assume that the 2wt you referenced is the Forecast you built. In that case the data states that it is almost in the middle of 2/3 wt. Others have mentioned that the Forecast is really better off with a 3wt line. The CCS data shows that the Pac Bay tradition II or rainforest 6’6" 2wt is a true 2wt. Maybe thats a good excuse to buy a H&H 6’6" tradition kit.
I have measured a few of my rods using the common cents system and my 9’ 4wt measured out as a 3wt; my 7’9" 3wt as a 4wt; my 7’6" 4wt as a 5wt. I have the Forecast 6’6" 2wt which casts a 3wt line better than a 2wt. The manufacturers don’t have clear standards for assigning weight ratings to their rods or blanks.
One more vote for the CC system and flyrods that load with 10 to 50 feet of line. Also, Moderate to Slow actions with the fast recovery of graphite or modern fiberglass.
Thanks for your opinion, but you have to understand that one man’s junk is another man’s treasure. Fishbum loves his bamboo, and makes a wonderful case for it, and I like fast graphite because it fits my casting style and I’m too cheap to buy one of his sticks (although I really love that 4wt). There must be a lot of other reasons, as well, why “the rod buying public is gobbling up these worthless distance casting rods.” Personally, I and many others here resemble that remark.
I found the Dan Craft blank I built to be a “powerful” rod…I don’t know if I would describe it as a fast rod though ( I bought and older model).
It sure has a cannon like cast to it and a very different feel then my other 3 wt…I am experimenting with overlining to 4 wt line but not sold on that just yet as it did cast a 3wt very nicely but “felt” different in some unexplainable way.
Anyhow, I REALLY like the rod a lot and it did take getting used to a bit and will probably go back to a 3wt line on it.
Thank you Joe for the kind words about my rods… Some day I will walk away from you with check in hand and you will lust no more for that 4 wt. bamboo rod. It is just a matter of time.
What most of us don’t know about factory made rods is the design criteria the rod designer used to design the rod. An example, I just completed a 10’ 6’ bamboo light salmon rod. The rod is designed to be used with both hands. In other words, a two handed rod. Not exactly a spey rod but a two handed rod. The design criteria for this rod is to overhead cast 55 foot of 8DT fly line. The last 16 inches of the tip and the bottom 25 inches of the butt have been tweeked to move the performance of this rod into the envelope I was looking for. Lawn casting has confirmed the design, now, I only have to let the steelhead confirm the design. Doing my own rod design work allows me to twiddle tapers to my hearts content. The CC system will fall far short on trying to determine what line weight this rod is supposed to be used with.
I still hold that in 2,3,4,5 and even some 6 weight rods, you can’t bet a well designed bamboo rod. Even the bigger rods, when designed with the right taper will perform on par with todays graphite cannons.
Your bamboo rod making fishing fool,
fishbum
PS
By the way Joe, The new 10 1/2 footer will work great on your Rocky River.
Joe,
I’m not trying to bash your rod action preference, and I apologize if I offended you. I’ve played with a number of fast action rods in the past and they simply do not work for my fishing needs. If I fished the salt or large western rivers, then I might look at fast rods differently. I’m a hardcore panfish angler. I used to have a fast action 3wt that was overkill for panfish. When you set the hook with that rod you had to duck because the bluegill would come flying out of the water at you. You couldn’t really play a gill on that rod at all, it just overpowered them. I gave up on fast rods after that.
To be honest, if I could afford bamboo thats probably what I would fish with.
