Okay, I’ve read various threads and still have to come up with a solution. There is an ORVIS, Large Arbor Battenkill, V, 9 to 11 w spare spool on ebay. Now, is this a good choice for a klutz like me, using a 9’ 9 wt Orvis Trident? Is a large arbor too much?
Thanks very much. Oh, I intend to do some striper fishing with this rig.
Mike
The difference between a mid-arbor and large-arbor is going to amount to how much line is retrieved per full crank of the reel handle/360 degree spin of the spool. That’s about it. Generally speaking, large-arbor reels are better for saltwater use simply because you can take up slack faster when the fish come toward you and saltwater fish tend to be faster swimmers than their freshwater cousins. The weight difference in the reels will be negligible if they are the same make and model otherwise. The large arbor is likely to be a wider reel than a mid-arbor or small-arbor reel would be. A lot of folks don’t like that aesthetic factor of large-arbor reels. They do seem a bit bulky compared to a sleek mid-arbor. But on a 9wt, I’d take the large arbor in a heartbeat.
The arbor size has nothing to do with how much line is retrieved per revolution. It is the diameter of the reel spool that determines retrieve rate, not arbor size. If I take my Able 3N for example, I can use the original 3N spool or fit the large arbor Super 6 spool to the same frame. Small arbor on one spool, large on the other. Both on the same frame. Diameter of both spools is the same. Retrieve rate is the same.
The Large Arbor Battenkill will be just fine for Striper fishing and match your rod nicely. I often use similar sized reels on my 9wt rods.
You really shouldn’t post blatantly erroneous info, tailingloop. Yes, some reels are made to take spools of different arbor sizes. That is a feature that generally increases the cost of the reel because it is far more attractive due to increased versatility. The arbor size determines how tightly the fly line is coiled around the spindle…because the arbor is sm/med/lg…duh. The larger the arbor, the fewer revolutions of the spool it takes to retrieve more line. You really should take a remedial geometry class and learn the definition of “arbor” in a glossary of fly fishing terms.
a large diameter reel will use less rotations to retrieve an equal amount of line than a small diameter reel given that the arbor is the same size in both. for reels of the same diameter the arbor determines the retrieve rate. spool width also needs to be considered. a narrower spool will fill faster than a wider diameter reel so the narrow spool should have a slightly faster retrieve rate if the arbor diameter is equal. a small diameter arbor will use more backing than a large diameter so the backing of the small diameter arbor will become the diameter of the arbor and approximately equal the line retrieve rate of a larger diameter arbor. anyway for me line capacity vs type if fish vs type of fishing is the determining factor for reel purchase. arbor diameter is far down the list of requirements.
Hardly erroneous.
Definition of Arbor( From Mirriam Webster)
1 : a spindle or axle of a wheel
2 : a main shaft or beam
3 : a shaft on which a revolving cutting tool is mounted
4 : a spindle on a cutting machine that holds the work to be cut
Also, every fly fishing reference that shows how to connect the backing to the reel shows it tied to the ‘arbor’, hence ‘arbor’ knot.
If the line came off the arbor when your retreived then the retrieval rate would be determined by arbor size. But he line doesnt come off the arbor. The arbor is under all the line and backing . The line comes of the end, closer to the outside edge of the spool. The end of the line comes off the reel first, not the arbor.
It is where the line comes off the reel that determines retrieve rate, not arbor size. Except for the last few turns of line that are actually touching the arbor, the distance between the axis of rotation and the point where the line comes of the spool is always greater than radius of the reel’s arbor. I it is thus this distance from the axis of rotation to the point that the line comes off the spool that determines the amount of line that comes off or goes on the reel per one rotation of the spool, not the distance from the axis of spool to the spool arbor.
I used the example of the Able 3N/Super 6 as an illustration of this because with the exception of arbor diameter, all of the other geometrical parameters of these reels are identical. I could have used other examples. If you spool them up with at any point with the same amount of line stripped off the reel, they retrieve line at exactly the same rate. With both filled to the spool edge (3.75"), they will both retrieve 11.78" of line with one spool revolution (pi*D). If you strip off the line so that it is 0.5" from the edge of the spool both will retrieve 10.21" of line. And so on. Note that when we stripped that line off the reel so that it was 0.5" from the outside edge of the spool, the amount of line stripped from both reels will have been the same. Two reels/spools, different arbor size, exact same retrieval rate.
Now large arbor reels reels often have wider spools to regain some or all of the capacity lost by increasing the arbor. However the rate of retrieve is still determined by the distance from the point where the line comes off the stack of line on the reel spool, not the distance of the arbor. Because of the wider spool ( and not arbor diameter) the rate of retrieve over a long length of line will be slightly faster than a narrower reel but this has to do with the width of the spool, not arbor diameter. The actual difference is really not that great in practice.
Large arbor reels offer greater retrieval rate with less backing. For example, an Orvis BB III reel has a small arbor, but with 150 yards of backing wound on, the fly line revolves around an “arbor” that is roughly 1.65 inches. A Ross Evolution #2 has an arbor that is already 1.75 inches in diameter, and will give you roughly the same retrieval rate without all of the backing used on the Orvis BBS. That’s good and bad, as the Evolution will not take much backing even if you want it. The real large arbor reels like Sage’s 4500 series offer a spool with a large diameter in light weight sizes, and also enough spool width to allow: 1) more backing; 2) more fly line to fit at the larger diameter portion of the spool. Large arbor reels allow the drag to remain more constant as the line is taken off the spool, but only if the diameter of the remaining line doesn’t change too much. Spool up the aforementioned Orvis BBS reel with 150 yards of backing, and begin pulling it back off. The drag will become increasingly stronger as the line diameter decreases. I have 3.5 inch large arbor reels that sucks line in like a vacuum cleaner, and that’s something that you can measure quite simply yourself: pull a section of marked (small piece of masking tape will do) line off the spool, turn the handle one revolution, and measure the amount of line retrieved.
P.S. Tailingloop seems to have added the information I posted while I was posting. I don’t want anyone to think I was trying to be redundant. 
Precisely. Leave out the “given the standard 150-200 yds of backing on a 9wt reel…” and you’re bound to get some egg-head with nothing better to do than try to prove he’s an expert to somebody.
The bottom line is: large arbor/mid arbor…ain’t much diff, dude. Buy the reel! But (and forgive me for being trained to give novices correct novice level answers) ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, a large arbor reel takes up line a bit faster. That’s it. They are usually a tiny bit heavier and sometimes considerably bulkier.
Yes, get the reel.
[QUOTE=flyguy66;402353ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, a large arbor reel takes up line a bit faster. That’s it…[/QUOTE]
Still incorrect. In my example of the Abel 3N and the Able Super 6, all parameters are equal except for arbor size. However if you pull the same amount of line off of each reel, one revolution of the spool will take up the same amount of line. I used this example because since the only parameter that is different between these reels is the arbor diameter and it can be clearly demonstrated that these reels take up line at the same rate.
This diagram illustrates the geometry.
If two reels have the same diameter spool, one has to have a wider spool (side to side) for it to retrieve line a faster rate. The wider spool will retrieve line faster because the depth of the line on the spool will decrease at a slower rate because you can get more turns of line on the spool before the line overwraps.
Even then, if you widen up the spool a bit the, increase in retrieval is minimal until you get into the backing. We took a Ross Gunnison 4 and Ross Big Game 4 and spooled them up with identical lines. Both reels have the same diameter spool. The Gunnison spool is .8" wide. The Big Game is 1.1" wide. That is a 37% increase in width. When we stripped of 60 feet of flyline off of both reels and cranked it back, the number of turns on average to reel the line back up was 1 less for the Big Game reel. Each time we tried this we got a different number of turns just due to the differences in how the line was wound down on the reel. Of course flylines are fairly thick and you will greater benefit to the wider reel when you get into the thinner backing. Aside from line coiling issues, the real benefit of large diameter and wider reels comes into play when you need to crank in a lot of backing. Making the reel larger give you a faster retrieve rate. Giving it a large arbor reduces the amount of backing it will hold, which is great because it is more cost effective to load that reel with 300-400 yards of backing instead of 600-800 yards, most of which you will never see. Another benefit designing a reel with a larger arbor and making it wider is that you can make the spool walls a bit thinner and save some weight, though it seems few manufacturers do this. This is because the shallower the depth of the line the lower the pressure of that line against the reel sides. So a thinner spool wall can be employed with fear of the spool bursting. The wider the spool the greater the benefit but there is a point at which it is too difficult to manually wind line on to wide spool.
You will see in the marketing media for many large arbor reels as statement something like the following : “… A large arbor ensures quick line retrieve…”. But this is misleading because it is incorrect and a misrepresentation to a novice or anyone who doesn’t consider the geometry of the reel. Marketing types persist in using misleading statements such as these leading some people to choose a reel for a performance benefit that they may not be receiving. It is the diameter of the spool ( or more correctly the depth of line measured from the axis of rotation) and width of the spool that determine line retrieved per revolution of the spool.
The pointy part of my egghead is on top.
tailingloop,
I saw your point awhile back, and it isn’t that you’re wrong on the technical point. I shouldn’t have said that about posting erroneous info. I apologize for that. But as a certified professional fly fishing angler education instructor and professional outdoor journalist of many years, I have a pet peeve with folks (like you) who love to information overload everything fly fishing - especially to newcomers! Now, if you KNEW that the Orvis Battenkill LA had no retrieval rate improvement at all, then I could see you chiming in and saying so. But we went from should this totally confused newcomer who has been agonizing for the past week or so over what reel to buy on these forums about to finally pull the trigger on an Orvis Battenkill, but wanting to verify that the LA was OK to a high-end Abel for comparison in a highly technical hair-splitting discourse on what precisely results in increased line retrieval rate and what doesn’t. This did NOT do this fella any good whatsoever in helping him decide whether or not to put that Battenkill on his Orvis Trident and go fishing! And THAT, my pointy-headed friend, is the point of what we do around here: to answer people’s questions and encourage newcomers to the sport. You don’t feed babies T-bone steaks, bud. You start them out on formula. Then progress to soft food. Only when they grow teeth do you start giving them stuff that has to be chewed. Get it?
Simple answers are usually not 100% technically correct. Yet, they are the right answers to the questions that were asked. This is the difference between wisdom and knowledge.
Flyguy66,
I agree with most of your points and philosophy. The simplest answer to the OP for us all would have been to just recommend getting the reel.
I help out in a local shop which sees lots of newbies and it seems that when it comes to purchasing gear the topics of most confusion are fly reels and fly lines, a confusion usually fostered by the marketing copy the customer has read. It is the misleading marketing copy that is a pet peeve of mine. We always take the time to explain to these customers what the functional differences are between the products using hands on demonstrations whenever possible. They will often purchase something other than what they thought they needed and often for less than the item that they saw in a catalog. We strive never to give incorrect info and really work and avoiding overload. And of course this may mean omitting info if appropriate (“start them out on formula”) The approach seems to be working well has the shop has been in business for four decades.
And yes, I can see where my attempt to clarify the large arbor issue may not have been the best approach in this case. It may not work as well though on line discourse as it does in the shop with a selection of loaded reels that a customer can handle.
You’re right again! If you (or I) were face to face and this fella was the type who wanted a detailed answer to his questions (many people do not, but only want the bottom line-one word or one sentence) and you had a few loaded reels to demo with, it would be a GREAT educational opportunity on several points: a) the merits of LA/MA/SA, b) the marketing hype surrounding the same, c) segway into weight/mass relationship to balance and swing weight, d) explain backing amounts and importance for the type of fishing he was planning to use it for. If he was a fellow computer geek, he’d love you forever! LOL Seriously, that is all important stuff to know if you’re about to drop big jack on a reel or you’re trying to spend less than $200 on a reel for saltwater fishing.
But on the Internet, and faced only with the question: is a large arbor “too much for a beginner,” (about an Orvis Battenkill to go on a Trident 9wt for Stripers) all we really needed to say was “Heck no. Buy it. You’ll love it.” But I’ve found that giving them ONE little extra bit of WHY it’s OK to buy it helps them feel good long enough to learn to appreciate what they bought.
And I happen to agree with you about marketing hype. The mfg’s and their ad merchants in this industry haven’t been doing anybody any favors for a very long time. And over the past several years, most of the outdoor media publishers have jumped squarely on the bandwagon out of fear of losing ad revenue. They’ll deny that vehemently, of course. But try to get a review published by one of the major print mags with even a hint of criticism in it!
Well said, flyguy66.
WHEW!!! I learned more than I didn’t know! I appreciate ALL the input. I am a teacher and am very glad to get more than I asked for!! Didn’t get that reel on ebay, so I’m still looking, but armed with much more information and can now make an informed decision!!
Thanks!!
Mike
I like cheese.
large arbor is best for saltwater or really any water, not my opinion just fact…get the reel and dont even think 2 times about it…fill it to capacity with backing and put on your line…the larger and wider the spool the less revolutions you have when you get your huge stripper going both directions…I catch big fish myself and know what its like to dump 200yds of backing on about every fish I get…I am a flyfishing guide from the Everglades to the saltwater flats and I get lots meltdown runs…I use only large arbor for everything and so should you…my knowledge has not been from what I read but what I actually do for a living…good luck with the reel and post pictures of your new “meat stick”
If you see one like that again they are good reels for the money, used even better. I’ve fished various models of them for the past 11 years. I fish for stripers, in all likelihood in the same area you do, and have for several decades. I fish from Cape Anne up to the Saco. One of my favorite spots is Odiorne SP in Rye. If you need any striper specific info, let me know. I live over by Bennington Vt. and go to the coast as often as possible. I assume your somewhere around Keene.
Charlie
Ditto, but with crackers and a decent wine, or is it wind? 