My annual hook order always comes with a few surprises. This year it was the size of their #7076 1XL hooks. They were a tad smaller in size than those purchased last year. I now have size 13, 15 and 17 hooks! Last year, some of their #7048 scud hooks were offset and others were not! Anyone else have similar experiences with MFC hooks?
I was checking out their website yesterday. Some fair deals in there, but I haven’t pulled the trigger on anything, yet.
Kirk
Ouch. This is why I stay away from the many “independent” suppliers popping up everywhere these days. I buy from one of the main brands (e.g. Tiemco, Daiichi, Gamakatsu, Mustad, even Dai-Riki) and I have a fairly high confidence in what I’m getting. When I buy from someone else, I’m never quite sure what I’m going to get. But there sure are a lot of players these days in the hook market and cheap hooks are plentiful if that’s your preference. I wonder how many will be around in two years…
A reminder to Whatfly: Eagle Claw has excellent hooks, sharp, strong, much less expensive and made in the U.S.A. I have no commercial interest. Thanks.
Actually, MFC has been in the biz for over 10 years. I personally like their hooks. They have good prices on other tying items as well.
According to whom? I might agree with the less expensive characterization and they may well be made in the U.S., but little else. I use their Lazer line for shad hooks and their jig hooks for stripers but in both cases their saving grace is they are cheap, nothing more. Indeed the EC413 is notoriously blunt and has been known to straighten out on larger fish…but it is VERY cheap. No reminder was really necessary, they just aren’t worth mentioning in terms of fly tying, IMNSHO.
Very good hooks for the money. Makes me wonder how other more expensive brands get away with their prices.
MFC is number 3 in the nation for fly production (probably after Umpqua and Orvis) so they must be doing something right.
Their hook quality is way above Dai-Riki and probably just below Daiichi and Mustad signatures. I think many people believe that expensive means better. (Compare to cars - many mid priced brands are way more reliable than luxury brands)
I discovered these hooks while searching for a suitable replacement for the Mustad Classics that were discontinued. They aren’t as good, but quite acceptable. (plenty sharp! And tough too. Half of the Dai-Riki’s I’ve bought have snapped when crushing the barb in the vise or on the water - I put the MFC’s in my vise and bent them every which way and they didn’t snap) I’ll bet their hooks will just continue to improve in the years ahead.
Their other tying materials are beautiful. And the prices are great.
Mustad is my favorite for every reason I buy hooks.
My opinion, of course.
Bill
I use MFC hooks on a significant majority of my commercial fly production. The fact that I’m one of their contract designers has a little to do with it, but the price is right, too. The scud hook seems to have a slightly odd shape, so for that taper I use Dai-Riki.
I just got done writing a section on hooks in the fly tying book I’m working on, and in it I suggest that what you get with more money today (maybe not 10-15 years ago) is fewer or no deformed hooks straight out of the package. With MFC hooks at about 60% the cost of Tiemco, I can stand one or two deformed hooks.
Size Consistency.
Does it really matter? For someone like Longs for Cutts, who is tying commercially, maybe it does.
But for the rest of us? The size differences between brands is significant. There is often some size differences between production runs of same brand hooks, even the socalled premium brands. This is due primarily to tooling wear and set up variances. Sometimes extruded wire will vary a thousandth or so in diameter along it’s length, and that changes the size at the end of the run, etc…
If you look closely at the hooks in a given box, you will see minor variations.
But these are just fish hooks. If the fly is 1/32 to 1/64 inch longer or shorter, who cares? I know the fish certainly don’t. Even tying dozens of the same pattern in a row, most commercial fly tyers won’t be within tollerances like that.
Heck, from the pictures of folks flies I’ve seen here, most of us can’t keep the heads of our flies within those tolerances.
Fish hooks are simple things. Man has been making them pretty much unchanged for a couple of hundred years now. While many buy all the hype about this and that improvement, they are still just fish hooks.
Almost all of us are going to let the fish go anyway.
Jusst how good does the hook really have to be?
Buddy
For me it’s got to be good enough to justify the investment of time I put into tying the fly (usually somewhere between 3-10 minutes). Since I can’t really quantify that value, I’d say I would probably be cheesed off if the hook gave out after 1 fish, but probably not so much if I caught a dozen. I’ve been lucky in that there have been very few instances where I’ve been a victim of hook failure, and also unlucky (or unskilled) in that I’ve rarely caught any truly big fish that would test the limits of the hook construction.
I’ve been happy with the Mustads and Dai-Rikis I’ve been using over the years (just can’t see the point in paying 2x more for the premium names), may have to give the MFCs a try.
Regards,
Scott
Scott,
I can honestly say that the only fish I ever lost to a hook failure in 45 years of fishing came while bass fishing with a Gamagatsu worm hook. This happened years before I switched to fly fishing.
That hook broke. I’ve never had a hook fail while fly fishing. I’ve broken a few at the vise, all of those were Tiemco (all I could find easily when I first started tying a lot).
I’m all for using the least expensive option when I can’t find a reason to go with a pricer alternative. Now that I tie so much, I try to buy my hooks in bulk or on sale. I’m not brand picky, but I do try to avoid Tiemcos just because I don’t trust them.
I’ve noticed that more and more of the companies I get materials catalogs from are adding in their own house brand of hooks. This leads me to believe that there are at least a few hook makers out there that have seen the demand for such a thing and are producing hooks that are reasonable quality at a good price. If there is a void in supply for a certain demand, it’s almost a given that it will be filled. Apparently such a demand existed, because you are now seeing lots of folks rushing to fill the supply side.
I expect hook prices to drop over the next few years. That would be nice.
Buddy
I assume you’re just trying to be argumentative, because of course it matters…if it didn’t, the original poster wouldn’t have posted. Standards exist for a reason, and if a supplier/manufacturer cannot even adhere to their own self-determined standards, then there’s something wrong. Furthermore, the post describes the entire run as being the wrong size, not just a couple of hooks, which implies that MFC has an unreliable manufacturing source for their hooks.
If I buy a size 16 1XL hook, one day, I expect it to be the same the next time I buy it. Sounds like MFC cannot meet this perfectly reasonable expectation, which implies that their quality control is lacking.
What is M F C ?
A longer name or do they just go by those initials?
I’ve used them for years mostly for Wooley Buggers at first, but latter for most of my bugs. I found them while looking for a specific hook that Partridge made(knowing the # is useless if you don’t have a vendor). MFC scud hooks were identical and VERY INEXPENSIVE in comparison. At the time they were made in the same country and region as Partridge, also had the same grey bronze finish. I’ve always suspected that they were a grey market Partridge.
I’ve seen more defective hooks in my old Mustad stocks. It’s rare I see a MFC hook that isn’t perfect, and haven’t seen any failures. Mustad hooks seem to be more brittle, and they break both in the vise and while fishing. TMC makes a good hook, but the price is higher, and they didn’t make the exact model I was seeking.
Bottom line it depends what you are doing as to what makes sense. Large hooks, Mustad is hard to beat, Poppers TMC makes some nice hooks. MFC is taking over my box for the others.
Montana Fly Company
Thank you.
He sounds more laid back and realistic about it than argumentative. A wider margin of tolerance.
You sound like a perfectionist (not that there’s anything wrong with that, just a narrower margin of tolerance). I’m closer to this end of the spectrum myself.
In ‘Dances with Trout’, John Gierach mentions being outfished by a guy in coveralls and a T-shirt fishing the Green-Drake hatch on the Henry’s Fork. Upon asking the guy what he’s fishing, he says “A green fly. These bugs are green so you gotta have a green fly”. Not very technical.
I’ve experienced the same situation myself. I’ve been outfished by someone with ugly, crudely tied oversized flies.
I think we need to let the fish decide.
Bill
Whatfly,
It’s obvious that it matters to you.
I was not trying to be argumentative. I’m pretty sure that MFC doesn’t make their own hooks. I’m also pretty certain that they might have, maybe several times, changed the supplier they buy them from. A little size variation may be somehow related to those kind of things.
I think that some variation in size is acceptable for the vast majority of fly tyers. I get that for some it’s more of an issue, not sure why, though, but some feel real strongly about it. That’s up to each of us, I guess. I don’t believe that some variation lot to lot of a style of hook means that the hooks are inferior and won’t perform their intended function.
I also don’t believe that if a hook is a bit shorter or a bit longer than they were the last time you bought them, that flies tied on them won’t catch fish. Last time I checked, I get to decide how big of a fly I tie on that hook shank. There is some room for adjustment, if needed.
I still beleive that it’s only a fish hook. It’s not all that hard to do, and just close is fine enough for my use.
Like I said before, I’m going to let the fish go. If he gets away, I’m not gonna care all that much. I’m cetainly not going to either blame the hook or pay extra for a hook when I can get an acceptable one for a lot less.
Of all the things I do related to fly tying and fly fishing, caring over much about what brand of hook I’m using and worrying about their size consistency is something I just don’t do.
Buddy