I’m probably asking for the impossible but I’ll try. I want a medium dun Metz Microbarb Saddle but they are impossible to locate. I’ve even called Metz. An alternative would be a Whiting Silver Quality Saddle. I would like to hear from someone who has used BOTH for a direct comparison. I’m mostly interested in the comparison of range of sizes. I have no interest in other alternatives. Thanks.
there is a place near us that sells the really small feathers on a neck, ncex time i Go to the place, if you like you can pay me, and i will send them to you…
JZ
Thanks anyway JC for your offer but I’m looking for technical info about 2 specific products only.
I’ll be sourcing from mail order firms later.
Oh, if you are wanting to see what people think, I highly think that the metz micro is much better, I don’t care for the whiting as much.
Ray,
I use both the Metz and the Whiting saddles. The size ‘range’ on the saddles is similar, mostly 12-16 with a few on either side. The Whitings seem to have a few more of the ‘either side’ feathers on teh small side, and the last one I sized out had fifty-six 20s on it, which I found unusual.
I do buy the gold from Whiting, though, as I feel it’s a better value.
Good Luck!
Buddy
Buddy,
Thanks for the reply. But are the Metz saddles you are comparing their regular saddles or their Microbarb?
Ray
Buddy,
Thanks for the reply. But are the Metz saddles you are comparing their regular saddles or their Microbarb?
Ray
Ray,
Tying commercially in an area where there is little available for materials close by, I’ve been forced to mail order most of my tying supplies. It’s been a long process of weeding out suppliers and brand names until I can consistently know what I will receive in advance. Back when Metz micro-barb saddles were first introduced I ordered one (Ginger for color). There was not a single feather on it smaller than a 10; most of it was size 8. I haven’t used Metz since for anything other than hen necks.
On the other hand, I have tied over 70 dozen size 16 and 18 parachute dry flies from a single grade 2 Whiting saddle. The new Silver grades are better. If you already deal with a good mail order house, ask them to select a saddle that is “heavy” with the sizes you want. If you want, I can suggest a few shops, but don’t know if I’m supposed to do that on the board. Can send a PM if you like.
Good fishing,
Arnie
Hi Arnie, The White,Ginger,Brown and Grizzly Metz “Microbarbs” that I have all have been purchased recently and all are predominately size 14. Maybe your Ginger Metz was one of their regular saddles which are another “breed”. The only complaint I have about my Microbarbs is that the Brown is really Furnace. I talked to Metz about this and was told that it is the state of their art, noting that Metz products are not dyed.
I have an older Standard Metz Saddle in a Dark Cree that, as you say, has mostly size 12 hackles with only a few 14s
Looks like I’ll settle on a Whiting Silver Saddle dyed Med. Dun.
BTW Hook & Hackle is my usual supplier.
Ray,
Check with Fly Fishers Paradise www.flyfishersparadise.com if your set for a metz in dun, they seem to carry alot of it. Or let Denny know at www.conranch.com what you’re looking for with size’s and he can probably help you out at a good price.
Fatman
Hi Fatman,
FF Paradise was the first place I tried for the Dun because that’s where I bought all my others. They seem to have a good relaionship with Metz. Steve told me he hasn’t seen one for a very long time, was not taking backorders and was antiicipating removing that color from his catalog.
Ray
Ray,
There is no comparison between Whiting and Metz any longer. Whiting hands down. What size flies do you want to tie with the saddle?
You might want to look into Hebert hackle from Whiting. I guarantee you that a Hebert Pro Grade Saddle will have more hackle than the Metz and will only set you back $15.00.
If you have a hankering for tying with long hackles you might want to try a Hebert Silver Grade Cape. I have got some that have 10-12" hackles on them. They will tie from sizes 10 - 22. Basically saddle hackle length feathers on a cape with the benefits of a WIDE range of feather sizes that capes offer. Amazing stuff!
Jim
Ray,
The ones I’ve used from Metz have been the microbarb saddles, predominently grizzlies.
Good feathers, lots of 14s.
I have pretty much ‘switched’ to Whiting, mostly because I can get them locally and the Metz aren’t as available in the shops here. I do prefer to ‘handle’ hackle before I buy it, if I can.
Good Luck!
Buddy
Jim, I agree that Metz and Whiting are not equivalent, or even comparable. IMHO, in spite of the highest price, Whiting is still the best value.
Buddy, your comment on Grizzly seems to be similar to my own experiences. It seems that the quality of Grizzly hackle is better for most brands. Don’t know if this is because of chicken genetics, or just the birds where breeders focus more attention. I was once fortunate to be in a shop when the owner was unpacking a new shipment of Metz saddles; found 3 grizzly standard saddles with lots of 12’s and some 14’s; great value for under 10 bucks each.
Ray, the ginger saddle I referred to was definitely a micro-barb; at least according to their label and my wallet. The only difference from a standard saddle was that the package was longer, feathers were longer, and mayble a little more limber. Major disappointment.
Good fishing,
Arnie
Arnie,
I think Denny will agree on this. Grizzly is one of the colors that quality is inherent. I think Creams and Browns are othe colors that the hackle quality is good also.
Jim
I own 5 of the “Microbarb” saddles…and their is NO comparison …They can’t hold a candle to whiting’s “Regular” saddles…MHO Of course!!!
Jim Slattery — Why are you hiding. No email address. No listed phone number. How can someone call you ???
Hi Ray,
Didn’t know I was! My info used to be available…maybe with the new forum it got knocked out.
Jimsflyco@aol.com
209-574-9867
I have gotten some really good hackle from some of the tyers’ grade Whiting saddles. As always, I tend to get it out of the package to look it over before I buy.
An exception to that rule are the Metz micro packs from Cabelas. You get 3 colors per pack. They go down to very small, but, being cut from capes, also go up to about sie 12. So the smallest size package will happily tye flies of size 20 or smaller up to size 12. 2 or 3 of these packs in different colors are a great way to save space and have versatility in your travel tying kit.
This is my opinion and experience. Your mileage may vary.
Ed
I too find Whiting saddle hackle superior to Metz, and don’t think there is anything out there that touches it, expecially in small sizes. That said, I find Metz wet fly hackle to be superior to any hen hackle I’ve tried from Whiting, and that includes Whiting’s “American” hackle. The same things that make Whiting so good for dry fly hackle, the stiffness and barb count, work against it for wet fly hackle. I’ve got three Whiting gold hen necks that, while useable, are just a pain. And the stems on the American hackle are much too thick, and the sizes overall too large. Metz on the other hand is wimpy, easy to fold, and works well for wet flies. It’s not quite as good as some of the European hen hackle that I’ve tried, nor as good as some of the domestic, privately raised hackle, but for the price, it’s dandy. I’ve never really liked Metz for dry flies, too much twist, doesn’t tie small enough, low barb density. But for hen hackle, they’ve got it all over Whiting.
Eric