Loop or nail knot?

Fishing Panfish & Warm Water
1

Long time ago I think the standard method of attachment…of the leader to the line was a nail knot. Then at some point someone started using a loop made into the line and leaders with loops for quick attachment…??

First time I hired a guide out west, he immediately cut the line off and tossed the loop and we went with a straight , knotted attachment because he said that loops would cause the leader to “hinge” and I wouldnt be able to cast “straight”…? Soooo…thats how Ive done my attachments ever since…BUT

Lately ( because Ive been looking at a new 5 wgt line) I see the loops made into the end?? I have no problem clipping off that last 1 1/2 inch of line if the loop is useless or a hinderance…but is it?

What do YOU use? A nail knot or a loop??

2

I use to do the nail knot to the line but now I use a piece of mono with a loop and I haven’t had problems with it so far. I guess you have to use a piece of mono that matches your fly line just like the butt section.

3

I agree with MM. I attach a stout piece of mono to the end of my flyline with a nail knot, and then tie a perfection loop in the end of that about 3 to 5 inches from the end of the fly line. To this loop I attach my leader which is also looped for easy attachment/detachment. Works for me.

Kelly.

4

Sully,

For many years I always used a loop of some sort.

The ones that come with the fly line are fine. Probably the ‘best’ method since it’s integral to the line.

The braided loop connectors that slip over the end of the line, if properly installed, work quite well.

Tying a piece of butt section to your line with a nail knot and adding a loop to THAT works too.

I’ve used all of them, and can’t seem to find a reason to use one over another. Now, I use the Castwell Knot, unless the fly line comes with a preinstalled loop (then I use that).

The guide you used was misinformed, as the ‘hinging’ thing doesn’t happen as long as the leader butt and the fly line loop are properly sized. It’s not uncommon for some very experienced anglers to harbor long held misconceptions.

Luckily for us, it really doesn’t matter HOW you attach the leader to the fly line as long as it stays attached and YOU are happy with the method.

Buddy

5

Sully,

I use a new leader every time I go out so I quickly gave up on using the nail knot to attach my leaders as it ate up too much line. If the line has a loop, go ahead and use it, but there will come a time when you will want to cut it off as the leader can really wear into the loop. That is when I take a stiff short 6 inch butt section of leader and use the nail knot to attach it to my line and I have a perfection loop on the other end and attach my leader to that. I do that on my dry fly lines as well as my nymphing lines and sinking lines.

Larry —sagefisher—

6

OK guys. I gotcha and appreciate the input. Thanks

7

Neither.

Scientific Anglers L2L leaders. Best thing since sliced bread…or before.

8

I always use the nail knot…much depends on what you are fishing for…for me loop to loop presents more problems than it helps…for starters I never change out leaders except for tippet…I use the same butt section and leader until it needs changing which is maybe once a yr at best…also I use long leaders from 13ft to 20ft and dont have the luxury of false casting so the loop tends to stick or hinder the cast when it needs to clear the guides…the same can be said when landing a fish…if the current is moving and the fish is fighting it is very difficult to land the fish without bringing the leader into the guides which will cause the leader to wrap the tip more often which can/will lead to a broken tip or a rod getting yanked out of your hand…with smaller fish it dont matter I guess…besides that I can tye a nail knot faster than most could ever change a leader…I have never had a nail knot fail in over 35yrs

9

if you want to keep the loop then use the loop to loop connection

if you want to cut it off, then use a nail knot connection

it seems you have used both, so why not use what you like to use?

10

I’m new at this, so I’m still trying out various knot systems. From the information I was able to find and the many opinions I’ve seen on the topic, I’ve settled on using a nail knot to connect my leader butt to the fly line and using a loop to loop connection to connect my tippet to the leader.

From the opinions I’ve seen, a fair amount of people find no problems with this sort of setup, but a similar amount of people cry “hinging” and would never touch it. The truth is probably in there somewhere depending on the size of the leader, tippet and the type of fly line.

I don’t know enough about all of this yet to form a truly educated opinion, but I do know that when I catch a tree, the last thing I want is to have to tie a new nail knot or blood knot before I can be fishing again.

11

I use loop to loop connections to connect leaders to the line. The hinging effect is repeated as gospel by many without experience with proper loop to loop connections. As Buddy stated, if the line and leader are properly matched then hinging is not a problem. If hinging does occur, it is usually because the butt section of the leader is too stiff compared to the flyline. I have seen this happen with poorly constructed leaders than are knotted to the flyline, so it isn’t limited to just loop to loop connections.

Depending on the setup, my loop to loop connections are of two types. With one type, the loop is on the end of the fly line. The other type employs a short mono butt section that is nail knotted to the fly line. I tie a loop in the mono butt section, which is used for the loop to loop connection to the leader. The mono is of similar flexibility to the end of the fly line. I use this most often with my trout rigs where I create the butt section from red or chartreuse Amnesia mono. This colored butt section is a nice strike indicator.

The built in end loops on flylines have really improved the last few years. I used to cut them off and replace with my own loops but I just leave them on and use as is these days.

12

No that it matters, but :stuck_out_tongue: , I prefer the mono/blood knot to the leader/perfection loop to the tippet method. Then again, I furl my own leaders with the shorb loop at the butt end, so the loop to loop is ideal. FYI … OVER TIME, the braided slip on loops will make a hinge where they join, and will crack and wear through the line where they hinge.
“slip on braided” loop … what a hoot! they are anything but “slip-on”! mean little buggers, they are!!:wink:

13

I fish an 8’ rod, so if I use a 9’ or longer leader, I have to bump 3 or 4 guides with the connection as I’m reeling in a big strong fish, and it’s just a recipe for disaster. The nail knot is the only one that will go through the guides, but I’d like to find something that is as smooth without having to tie a new nail knot each leader change(although that is getting easier with practice). I had a knot that I could use on the loop of the line, but forgot how to tie it. Can the castwell knot be used backwards? with the leader wrapping around the loop on the end of the line?(I’m trying to eliminate any knotted loops that could catch) Are the L2L connectors any good?

14

They’re only like $3.00. Try one out. I bet you never go back. I’ve used them for like 3 years now. Unbelievably easy to change out and very durable. To answer the next question…NO, I have never had the connection come loose and I fish for 20+ inch browns and bass with them.

Check this little fella out I caught with one:

Or maybe this one:

Or this one :slight_smile: :

15

I have found that this is much more likely to occur with braided loops that are secured with shrink tubing and/or glue, which creates a stiff spot in the line. Once I learned to secure braided loops with a trap nail knot and a little flexible glue to coat the knot only, the cracking of the line is almost eliminated. I have fly lines that have had the same loop installed for over 10 years now that have seen hundreds of days of repetitive casting with no cracking where the braid is secured to the line. With my shooting lines, the line wears out where it is double hauled through the guides well before it does where the braid is secured. Some lines have required a replacement after five or six years. Typically these have been lines with harder coatings such as some tropical lines that I have used.

16

loop to loop connection

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/blog.php?b=104

17

Head slapping moment!! Wish I’d thought of that! Just followed the package directions (as a novice fly fisher many years ago:rolleyes:) till I learned to tie the blood knot and make perfection loops!! May have to give that another whirl … but probably not! :wink:

18

No, the Castwell knot will not work in reverse.

For those of you going through all the nail knot perfection loop work, I suggest you at least try the Castwell knot one time.

I use nothing but furled leaders and they last a long long time. I certainly do not have to change leaders every time I go fish. I use tippet rings on the fly end of the leader.

Castwell knot uses the fly line to tie into the loop of your leader. Of course the furled leader already has a loop…just as many store bought leaders have. Works on both.

If I want to change the leader, simply cut the fly line at the knot. You are only loosing about 1/4" of fly line if that much. And tie on a different leader. I use UV Knot Sense to cover the knot…in hopes it does not snag on the guides. I have not fished enough to know if it is going to hang in the guides yet. I haven’t had a fish on where the knot has come into the guides yet. So I can’t swear to that. (I use an 11’ rod)

But you do not need a tool, no perfection loops, just tie the knot, clip off the tag and go fish. Leave the leader on the line and use it over and over and over…etc. It is not going to wear out…or wear down like a store bought mono leader.

It is so simple, so easy, I cannot imagine going through all that trouble. Even if I lose a fish or two I wouldn’t switch back to all that other bother. I only do C & R and I don’t land every fish I hook into anyway. If I land him I am going to turn him loose without taking him out of the water. If it hangs up in the guide, so be it. It is only going to break the tippet…if it does that even. I’ve had enough fun with him by that time anyway, and I am just going to turn him loose.

The Castwell knot is so simple you can probably tie it in about 15-30 seconds, can tie it without a tool, probably could tie it in the dark…with just a tad of light. All that nail knot and loop business…not for me. No way in heck.

BTW…just for fun…I figured out how to remove the mono leader that comes on an L2L and install a furled leader on it! Sweeet. But I haven’t fished with it…I don’t trust them. But I can do it, totally without affecting the integrity or strength of the original connector at all. I just prefer to tie the line to the leader with the Castwell knot. It is so simple and quick…I don’t need the L2L.

19

I do know that when I catch a tree, the last thing I want is to have to tie a new nail knot or blood knot before I can be fishing again.[/QUOTE]

if you are casting the entire leader system into a tree and need to change the entire setup then it does really matter what you use…again the tippet should break, nothing else…if there is- something is very wrong…

20

I’m with Gemrod on this one. Tie a perfection loop or surgeons loop at the but end of your leader if it doesn’t already come with one and secure it to your fly line with the Castwell knot. There is no more secure, easy, fast fly line to leader connection and believe me I have tried them all. It won’t catch an eyelet either

The knot gets tighter and more secure as force is applied BUT you can also back it off and remove the leader without cutting the leader or fly line.

Greg