I guess the AFTMA line weight standards are just so 20th Century. Don’t need 'em anymore, apparently. Rio and Cabela’s, among others, have some lines that are listed as being one line weight heavier to perform better with today’s faster rods. And S.A. has some that are a half-weight heavier- for the same reason. Really? First, we’ve known for some time that many rod makers mislabel their rods re.: line weight. Have done that for decades now. They deserve criticism for that, but we’ve become used to it, right? But a line that’s one size heavier is just plain wrong. Say a 5-weight floating line, for example. There is a specific weight range that was established decades ago for this: 134-146 grains. One size heavier? That makes it a 6-weight, NOT a 5-weight. Yet a fly fisher who just walks into a shop, or orders a line on the net, may be getting the wrong line(s) for his rod(s). Remember now- not everyone can go to a nearby fly shop to try out different lines on rods. My point (finally): why can’t the rod and line makers give us reasonably accurate labels? Yes, I know that different casters may need different lines on the same rod. But it seems that it has now become a rat’s nest of confusion. There. I told you upfront it would be a rant! But I do feel a little better.:rolleyes: Chuck
Yep, your anger is well placed there. And to top it off there are lines being made for every fish that swims in fresh or saltwater today. I knew we were approaching the end of time when they came out with a carp taper. You not only have to deal with differing line weights that don’t fall into the old guidelines but now every taper is bulked up or thinned down in different areas depending on what you’re fishing for. Then you have bring into consideration the distance you plan to cast on a regular basis, and I have lines now that are “easy mend” and “ultra thin” and perfect for streamers. Seems like lines that were true to the old double taper are a lot easier to find. The Weight Forward lines have gotten completely out of hand with the variations available. If it wasn’t too much trouble for a lazy guy like me I think I’d go with silk DT and just weigh them myself.
I have two ways around this ‘problem’ that I use. First, I can email the fly rod manufacturer and ask them what would be the best line for ‘X’ style of fishing with a certain fly rod and they are very will get right back to me with a suggestion. The second method is to talk to my local fly shop and ask them, they are also very knowledgeable. Just a thought.
Larry —sagefisher—
Here’s what I do.
Put the line on the rod.
Don’t worry if it’s a size heavier, lighter, odd tapered, or whatever.
Fish with it.
If I don’t like it, take it back.
I’ve found that I can ‘figure out’ how to cast any rod with any line rated between two sizes smaller and four sizes heavier than the ‘rod rating’ pretty easily.
I’m not a great caster. So as long as the line will take my fly to the fish, I don’t sweat ‘optimum’ too much. For those fishermen that are really good casters, I’d think they would know exactly what they were doing and could figure it out pretty quickly. For those who are beginners, close is just fine and they’ll learn with whatever line they have.
Buddy
Sorry, Buddy. I have to disagree with you. A tyro needs to have a line that is correct for that rod- or maybe a bit heavier, for starters. Then he/she can feel the cast so much better. I’m a pretty good, experienced caster, but certainly not an expert. I, too, can cast lines that are noticeably lighter and heavier for a given rod- but that doesn’t mean I like it. When there’s a match for the rod and line combo in my own hands, it just makes fishing so much more enjoyable. Chuck
Just another reason why I like fishing with fiberglass. They seem to be able to handle a wider range of line weights. I know it isn’t right for all applications, but it works for my limited style. My 2 cents. Well, maybe just a penney.
Lotech, I think you are right about that. I think of there being 3 primary rod material types without getting into exotics and mixes. Graphite, fiberglass and bamboo. Of those the graphite can best handle heavier weight lines rather than lighter. I also think fiberglass is the most forgiving in either direction. Bamboo, which is basically all I use right now, can be the most critical of all to line right. Sure, up or down a line weight it will still function but if you want to have the sweet feel of the classic grass getting the right taper and weight can make a so-so rod just sing to you. 'Course it always tries to sing in soprano and goes off key quite often in my hands but you get the picture.
I agree. If a 5wt rod works better with a 6wt line, it’s a 6wt and should be labeled as such. If a 5wt line weighs as much as a 6wt, then call it a six weight! I guess it’s the same reason a 2x4 is really 1-3/4 x 3-3/4, and a 9x12 rug is 8’6" by 11’6" 
!
I agree with everything you said, except for one thing…
A 2x4 is 1-1/2 x 3-1/2
Sorry. Couldn’t resist the temptation to be a smart a**.
Chuck, you have hit one of my hot buttons. At least there is an AFTM so called standard for fly line weight. However there is no standard for rods We’ll probably start seeing 5.5 weight rods to susposedly match 5.5 wt lines. My solution is: please tell me how much the line weighs. I’ll then select a line weight that I’ve used To fit the rod I’m fishing with. There is a lot of unneeded hype out there. Lighter, faster etc. They never say lighter than what.
I don’t really know much about this, so I have a a question. If you have to use a heavier weight line (e.g., a 6 weight line on a 5 weight rod) so that fast rod will perform better, isn’t what you really have done is transform the fast rod into a slower action rod–which maybe a lot of us would find better to start with? Or am I missing something (as I often do)? Just asking…
Good question ggh…
Cliff
ggh,
For my style of fishing I over line my nymphing rods. Main reason, I am not casting long distance nor do I like to do hardly any false casting as you are just asking for trouble. So, I over line by one size to have more weight out of the end of the rod for the short distance I a casting. That helps to load up my fly rod more so I can make decent short range casts with a heavy load of flies, split shots, with several hinge points. If I was casting the fast rod a long distance then I would stick with the weight suggested by the manufacturer. Most of my dry fly rods are matched, rod weight to line weight. The only time I may over line one of them is if I know I will be casting very large dry flies a long way on a very windy day. But, most of the time I stick with the suggested line weight.
Larry —sagefisher—
Changing to a heavier or lighter line does not change the action of a rod. Rod action is an inherent physical property of the rod.
It may change how you perceive the action. Same as of you put a line on the rod and change the amount of line outside the rod tip.
If put a 5wt line on a 5wt rod, strip of 30 ft of line and cast it, the road will bend and unbend (load/unload) a certain amount. Strip off 35ft and it will bend more. Only 25 ft it will bend less.
Now put a 6wt line on the same rod. You will find that 25 ft of a 6wt will feel about the same as 30 ft of the 5 wt line. The action has not changed. You have just used a shorter length of a heavier line to provide the same load as a longer length of a lighter line.
Changing lines doesn’t change a rod or make it better or worse. It may make it better or worse for you though, which is good enough reason to experiment.
I would disagree with that. Rod makers label their rods with the line that they think is the best fit for the rod in the situations that they feel the rod will most commonly be used. And tbis usually base it on a basic DT or WF type - mostly WF today.
But this is purely the subjective choice of the designer or design team . The designer can’t possible fit their subjective judgement to every possible caster. This is why you will sometimes see whole lineups of rods from a maker that people will insist are incorrectly rated for line weight yet others ewill think they are spot on.
The line thing can get quite confusing today and the marketing rhetoric doesn’t help. What I would really like is for all the line makers to clearly define the line taper profiles and the 30ft grain weight and the total head grain wt. some of the companies are moving closer to this ideal.
Chuck,
Understand why you’d disagree. Some folks think that what is written on rod is correct, or what is written on the line box is ‘correct’. Some don’t, and would wish that it was so.
As you’ve noted, some, if not many, rod or line makers finagle, fudge, or play with the line weight rating for many reasons. I don’t think these are nefarious or intended to mislead, it’s just the way the fly rod and line world works.
Also, some believe that there is one ‘perfect’ line for any rod. I do not believe this at all.
If any new caster buys a fly rod and a line that ‘matches’ it based on the rating on the rod and the line box, that caster will be able to learn to cast well enough to catch fish with that set up. It may not be a dead on accurate match because of the practices of the rod maker or line manufacturer, but it will be close enough for a beginner. A beginner doesn’t need a ‘perfect match’ to learn to cast. Close is okay, as the act of learning to cast the rod and line will cause that person to adapt to the equipment they have.
It’s only the journeymen and experts that seem to bemoan the lack of standardization. I find this odd, as these folks should be past relying on the labels on rods or boxes.
In any event, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I’m happy that a person can walk into WalMart, buy a decent fly rod/reel/line combo for between $50 and $100, and get out and learn to fly fish. If the rod isn’t the ‘best’ or line doesn’t ‘match’ perfectly, they won’t know or really care as long as they can catch a fish or two and hopefully get hooked on the sport.
Buddy
About a dozen years ago, a friend had a 9 foot, 4-weight Sage rod. Don’t remember the model. He was a pretty experienced fisher, and caster. He (and I) had a devil of a time loading that rod with a 4-weight line. Then he hoisted a blugill over his shoulder with a too-strong hook set, and said he finally found something that would load that rod! He soon “unloaded” it. Buddy, we are all different casters, as you have intimated. No argument. My feeling is that a tyro needs to feel the weight of the line, and to feel the rod bend, to advance as as caster. Perhaps that’s one reason why many instructors put moderate action rods into their students’ hands. Disagree? That’s fine, of course. May we always find people who disagree with us in a friendly manner, so we can learn and grow.
Chuck
I help operate a fly shop. We agree that newbies usually need something that allows them to feel the rod with the rated line (not a half or full wt heavy line) used at normal panfish, trout, and bass casting distances of about 5 to 40 ft. It’s not unusual to have a new Flyfishers come in and want to by the best rod. They may have read that a Sage Method, or Loomis NRX or some other high cost high tech super fast rod is the best. Maybe they just have to have the best, whatever that means, or be seen on the water with some bling in there hand. We try to steer them to something of moderate to moderate fast action that will actually work well for them and be enjoyable to learn with and fish with. The customers who take our advice tend to become repeat customers. Many of those that try to start with those super fast rods don’t seem to stay with the sport.
Well I’ll be damned! No wonder everthing I build turns out smaller than I expected!
C’mon, think back…it was very common for rods to have multiple weights listed like a 4/5, 5/6, etc.
Here is an excerpt from a great article on the subject by Lefty Kreh:
Let me begin by saying that rod manufacturers design rods for the average person to use under average conditions. So unfortunately, most fly fishermen use only one weight of line on their favorite rod.
Written on the rod blank or handle is a code number which indicates the line that the rod manufacturer suggests is best for most customers; i.e., 6 line. To most fly anglers, this means that they should use nothing but a 6 weight line with this rod. But to get the full potential from different fishing situations, you may want to consider using several line sizes on your rod ? perhaps varying as much as two line sizes from the one suggested on the rod.
Manufacturers know your rod may be used in a host of fishing situations, but they can?t judge your casting style and fishing skills. So when they place a recommended line number on your rod, it is implied that it?s for average fishing conditions. First, understand that you?re not going to damage a fly rod using fly line a little lighter or heavier than is recommended. Certainly, at times, the rod will fish better if different line sizes are used.
Match line weight to conditions…
http://www.scientificanglers.com/plan-your-trip/fly-fishing-tips/how-choose-right-fly-line-weight-lefty-kreh
I often use multiple weight lines on the same rod, depending on conditions. Give it a try.