Many fly fishers are going to read these words and be upset, because much of what I have to say goes against much of the writing and conventional wisdom of the day. I would just ask that you read, digest and consider the conclusion I will present. These methods, practices and understandings have stood me in good stead over an angling career that has spanned more than fifty years. These are also the methods I teach at fly fishing clinics and on guided fishing trips for the past thirty five years, and these practices have been proven to be effective time and time again. These methods did not spring full blown into being; they were developed over time and by learning from others, including those that I was instructing.
I finally gave up on most leaders. Since I use furled leader on mnost ofmy rods, I just put a few feet of mono on for the leader.
Works for me and is much simplier.
Thanks for the thought provoking article.
Rick
Very nice article. One thing I don’t understand is your disdain of the nail knot for connecting your leader to the fly line. As far sliding through the guides, I’ve always thought that was the best knot. Loops connectors always seem to get hung up for me. Maybe it’s because my nymphing leaders are too long?
I feel the same. Nail Knot is always been my choice as far as knots go, for smoothness. But, alas, I too have been furled leaders for a very long time and only knot is in the tippet. I did have a molded loop fray yesterday while trying to land a carp. Made for a difficult land and a bit scary when the leader wrapped around the tip as I tried to get the loop through the tip top. All worked out though 
Hi Goddess! I used a furled leader all last year to nymph as an experiment. My catch rate was the same as with a regular tapered leader. Many people say that you miss and can’t feel all the takes when using a furled leader. I disagree. What about you?
Bruce
PS. If you think this post is approaching a hi-jack of the thread please PM me.
Ahhhhh that is why I caught 99 instead of 100…LOL I don’t agree on the miss take.
… I thought Tom did a pretty good job of describing why he doesn’t like the nail knot, Bruce. A full paragraph describing the problems he associates with it over the years. That little bit of line protruding beyond the knot is the culprit.
Conversely, it took him a brief sentence to describe the benefit of the needle knot - which is mainly that the leader feeds directly into the center of the end of the line and then tied in a bit further down the line making for an exceptionally smooth transition. If I were going to tie a mono leader to a fly line, I would opt for the needle knot.
But, alas, I too use furled leaders for most of my fishing ( the exception being large nymphs under an indicator, which is mostly a winter thing around here ) so I don’t have to deal with those knots. On lines with built in loops, the loop to loop works great. Where there is no built in loop, I opt for the Castwell Knot which does, admittedly, have a bit of the same problem as the nail knot - a little bit of line protruding from the knot. That is usually knot a problem since my combined furled leader plus tippet usually aren’t much longer than my rod, if as long.
The things I most enjoyed about Tom’s article are his thoughts on leader length and tippet size. Probably because they are so close to my own ideas on those subjects. My thinking on tippet size probably got a good start down in Idaho Falls when Jimmy at Jimmy’s All Seasons Angler explained to me why he wouldn’t even carry 7X tippet in his store, and why he discouraged sales of 6X tippet. As it is, about the only thing I use is 4X or larger, regardless of fly size ( from size 20 Griffith Gnat to size 2 FEB salmonfly dry ) except for streamer fishing.
The perceived need for long leaders seems to me to be mostly based on one, or both, of two ideas - keeping the fly line away from the fishies or getting a better drift, especially when fishing smaller flies.
I typically fish 3-5’ of tippet off a light colored thread furled leader. That light colored thread furled leader is probably as visible / observable to the fishies as a fly line is. Best I can tell, having such a leader less than 4-5’ away from and maybe as close as 1-2’ to the fly has virtually no effect on the fishies going after a fly. ( Maybe, to paraphrase Joni’s observation above, I’m only getting 23 or 24 instead of 25 !! :roll: )
No doubt long leaders and fine tippets are sometimes needed for smaller flies - but my take on it is that the long, fine tippets are needed to compensate for or overcome the effects of having a rather long stiff mono butt and mid section of the leader. That long stiff butt and mid section are going to want to drag or steer the fly, so a long fine tippet is required to minimize that effect to get a decent drift. The benefit of a thread furled leader is that the entire length from butt to tip is more supple than even 5X or 6X leader / tippet material, so there is no dragging or steering effect to overcome.
The net effect is that if the fishies are not bothered by an obviously noticeable but naturally drifting thread furled leader that is not dragging or steering the fly, very short and stout tippets will do the job a lot more effectively. Instead of “playing” fishies almost to death, you can horse them, quickly get them back into the system relatively refreshed, and get back to fishing. :shock:
John
One problem with needle knots is some line actually have a core. Silk comes tto mind, but it has been awhile. I put loops in all my fly lines that don’t come with them by folding the line over, using a hair iron to melt them together, then use thread (same thread I use for tying and my furled leaders) to wrap around the two. I then coat with a thin layer of Knot Sense as it is flexable. I have also used the Zap-A-Gap needle no knot connection with store bought tapered leaders. NO knot what so ever and very strong…don’t get any cleaner than that.
I do use 6X but I use #30 dries. Try fishing some waters (the Green) certain times of the year and they have to be small, which doesn’t mean small fish. I have “landed” 24" with a #32 Snow Fly. I prefer dark colors for leader like Olives and Browns, whith Gray on cloudy days.
John, I have gone after the Gulpers at Hebgen and long leaders and great deal of stealth meaning 60’ and longer delicate cast. I realize you don’t typically stillwater fish, but you ever had a situation like this? If so, I would love to hear about it.
FG
… are as soft and clear as spring creeks and stillwater. In the pic below, just before run off ramped up this year, the water inside the hard current was a large, very clear, very slow moving back eddy, with depth to maybe 10’ ( my best guess ) at the time.
Using the same thread furled leader with 3-4’ of 4x tippet fishing an FEB skwala, I caught this 16-17" cutt after the fly had waffled around on the chop for many, many seconds.
Just a couple days ago, in post run off conditions, I used the same set up fishing an FEB golden stone on this very deep, crystal clear run in the soft water nearest the bank. The first step off the bank where I caught him was into at least 8’ of water.
Same result - from way down deep with the leader clearly in view all the way -
So to answer your question, Joni - with a question - is this all that different than fishing stillwater ??
I fish a lot of crystal clear, very soft, almost still water. The results above are typical. Would it work on Hegben or one of the Paradise Valley spring creeks ?? It’s easy to say “no.” But maybe the answer is “yes” for those who will get away from habits and prejudices and give it a go. Maybe becoming aware of one of the big liabilities ( stiff butt and mid sections ) of tapered mono leaders and the benefits of very supple thread leaders will move some people in a new direction.
John
P.S. The one time I fished DePuy Spring Creek in Paradise Valley, under difficult early April conditions, I used the same basic set up with very small midge and BWO patterns and caught fishies - not a lot and not very big, but then not all fishies are.
Oh yeah - I fished that famous Kelly’s NoTellum spring creek down in SE Idaho that reportedly has all those monster Ph.D. fishies in it. There are some monsters in there. I only managed to catch 16-18" browns and cutts fishing thread furled leaders with short 4X tippets and simple stuff like parachute PMDs and Lawson’s Halfback ( PMD ) emergers. Does that count ??
Hey All. I, too, agree that there are rare occasions when a 7X tippet is needed. I’d say fishing size 30s would be one of those situations. The smallest tippet I use is 6X for tricos in sizes 22 and 24. I fish size 28s for midges so then I go to 7X. I guess I shouldn’t speak for all leader to line connections because I’ve only used two, the loop, and nail knot. The loop really gets on my nerves. I’ll have to research the needle knot. I also agree that most leaders are longer than they need to be. As far as nymphing tippet, I use mostly 4X in normal water. When it gets low and clear I switch to 5X. My thinking, I suppose, is that it’s thinner in diameter and won’t be as easy for the fish to see. I think the part of the country and types of water we fish would have some bearing on our tippet size, too. This is a good discussion.
… you can do it with a bright orange thread furled leader and a couple inches of 4X or larger tippet …
( The spot on the very clear running creek where this fish was caught was probably less than 18" deep. )
… but when it comes to dry flies, you might have to go up to 9 inches of tippet …
( This guy was in a small soft water pocket on the edge of the river that was about 6’ deep. )
Like you said, Bruce, the types of water we fish have a bearing on what we can do ( some would say get away with ) when it comes to leader color and tippet length.
These were the results of experiments conducted to find extremes. But I’m not satisfied that you really even need tippet. I’ve thought about substituting the eye of the hook for the tippet ring so the thread furled leader is attached directly to the fly - but that would be taking things to the extreme, and it would make changing flies a bit more difficult. :roll:
John
John I am not really sure what you are saying.
Depth and distance would be the main difference on stillwater, but going with your example, no, a pool would be no different. I am talking making a dry fly delicate presentation at 50+‘. I Actually use a 7’ special taper with 5’ or more of tippet.
I also attach 4’ of 4 lb fluoro to a 5 or 6 foot furled leader. I then pit a tag of 6" about a foot down from the ring and attach a dry, so basically, my dry is about 18" from the furled leader and a dropper 3’ below that. Been working great, and no it doesn’t matter what color the leader is, but I am guessing there cause as I said, I use earth tones.
Here is the dry in action, not on film, but there is a tiger trout on the Prince Nymph dropper three feet back
I agree furled leaders are the best choice, probably why I have been using, building and sharing them with people all over the world.
But, I have experimented to make sure and try to understand other choices. I even have the Shimizaki tool:
http://www.tiemco.co.jp/english/products/flyfishing/sls.html
No knot, just super glue. Ultimate clean connection, but as mentioned the stiffness of mono.
Joni -
I think you and I, as usual, are on the same page. The main difference is that you have chosen a much more varied experience, and you get to observe stuff that a lot of other people do, whereas I choose to fish a certain kind of water because it is in the places I like to spend my time, and I almost always fish alone.
My thinking on the steering effect of mono butt and mid sections is a rather recent thing. A couple months ago, on a chance meeting, I was watching an acquaintance fish. About mid point in his mono leader was a half coil - reel memory that he hadn’t completely straightened out. I hadn’t seen that kind of thing in years.
This fellow, who has been fishing for a long time, had never seen a furled leader. In discussing them, noting the half coil in his leader and pointing out the impossibility of holding any length of a thread furled leader vertically, the relative stiffness of mono vs. the absolute suppleness of thread furled leaders was really highlighted. In articulating what I intuitively knew about the advantage of thread, the steering / dragging effect of mono emerged as an idea.
Tom talks about drag in his article. He mentions ways to reduce it - while using mono leaders. It certainly would be interesting to get his thoughts after using furled leaders for some period of time.
John
Absolutely. And Furled, not braided or twisted:cool:
John and Joni, Do you think furled leaders, because of their thickness, have more of a drag?
For me, suppleness and “lack” of thickness, but still strong.
My how things have changed. I started fishing gulpers on Hebgen Lake in 1971. I never made a 60 foot cast, never used 6x leaders, and we often hooked and released a couple dozen fish each day. The last time I fished the gulpers on Hebgen I was amazed at the number of individuals that I saw in drift boats fishing for them. Obviously when you are in a drift boat the fish can see you a long distance away and you have to make long casts or you put them down. I also noticed that lots of the anglers were doing lots of casting and not much catching. Throwing a size 22 or 24 trico imitation 60 feet, seeing the take, and then setting the hook at that distance is a skill that I don’t possess, and it seemed that lots of others didn’t have that ability either.
Ah, but a skill worth learning;) I work more from feel. There are times you got to step outside the box, as they also see that Pontoon or Tube. I have had my …closer days too.
… any size mono leader or any size furled leader, so I don’t know that furled leaders, generally, are thicker than mono leaders.
Drag is caused by the leader / tippet pulling or pushing a fly off course of a fully natural drift of that fly with the current. The thickness of the leader / tippet has nothing to do with that happening. However, the stiffness of the leader / tippet definitely does. ( The size of the fly relative to the stiffness of the leader / tippet is also a factor - the same leader / tippet will drag a very small fly before and more noticeably than it will drag a very large fly. )
Regarding the thickness / stiffness issue, consider this as an experiment. Take two pieces of spaghetti out of the box. Put the end of one piece on the kitchen counter against a dime. Cook the other piece for fifteen minutes. Now put the end of the cooked piece on the counter against a second dime. The cooked piece will be thicker. Now, pushing the end of each piece of spaghetti farthest from its dime, push the dimes. Huh ??? Watch one dime move and watch one piece of spaghetti move.
Now secure ( somehow ) one dime to the uncooked piece of spaghetti and place the other end as close to the dime as possible. Then secure the second dime ( somehow ) to the overcooked piece of spaghetti and place the other end of that piece as close to its dime as possible. Now start pulling on each piece of spaghetti. Huh ??? Watch one dime move and watch one piece of spaghetti move.
That experiment would obviously be an exaggeration of the relative stiffness of a tapered mono leader and a thread furled leader. But I think it illustrates the principle that the more stiffness there is, the more likely drag will occur and the more suppleness there is the less likely drag will occur.
John
Always cracks me up to hear of people using 8X, flouro, etc. Can you see the line? Underwater?? Then so can the fish.
Only time I use smaller than 5x is when the leader won’t go through the eye…but then I use red and white bobbers for “strike indicators” as well.