Keogh vs. Whiting

All about flies Fly Tying
1

Just started tying a couple of months ago and having a blast. One thing that has been a little a frustrating is tying in and wrapping hackle. I’ve got a Keogh Neck Cape and when tying in, wrapping and tying off the hackles they just seem kind of stiff and was wondering if I bought some of the better Whiting neck capes if I would notice a difference. I’ve about got the basics down and am willing to spend the $ on better materials if the difference in cost is worth it.

On a side note, one of my other frustrations which is no doubt based on "operator error is tying in the biots on a Prince. My Prince Nymphs are actually looking pretty good but I’m having a “bugger” of time getting the biots tied in. I guess I just need smaller fingers??

Thanks for any input!!!

Tom

2

Im not going to mention anything about the biots, but I do know good hackle makes the world go around. Keough is some decent stuff, but you should check out our sponsers. Conranch produces some hackle that is hard to beat. Plus his prices are reasonable.

Personally whiting has some good hackle, but it can be costly. I have a few saddles and I really like them. But I find denny’s stuff more then perfect for all my tying.

Check him out!

3

http://www.conranch.com/

here is the website, you wont be dissapointed.

Phil

4

As far as the biots go they can be a bugger. Built a thread “ball” where you want the biots to go. Make two loose wraps then adjust the biots. At this time you can cinch the thread down and continue to tie in the biots. Hope this helps

5

I really like the Whiting’s 100 packs, esp. when I was just getting started. The long saddle hackle gave my fat fingers more to hold onto. I also liked being able to buy only what size I needed.

The Conranch stuff is nice quality, a good value. I still like and use both Keogh and the Whiting necks. I tend to use the Keogh for drys 16 and larger, the Whiting gold or platinum grades for smaller 18 to 26 sizes. I think there are more small feathers of good quality on the Whiting necks. The platinum grade necks are pricey, but the quality is just amazing.

I like to soak my biots prior to tying. I fold them into a wet paper towel for about 10 minutes. I find this makes them more pliable and easier to work with.

6

One of the “break throughs” I made, for myself at least, was to preassemble the biot pairs ahead of time in the “V” arrangement using an adhesive. The glue is your choice.
It is much easier for me to properly center these assemblies on the hook. Give it a try.

7

This may not apply to all shopw, but all of my quality hackle has come as a 1/2 nek or cape from my locla “fly guy” who typically buys in bulk, dies to the colour he wants, and then sells what he doesn’t use himself. If price is a factor and you know someone who ties commercially, say a fly shop owner, you mgit want to give that a try…costs nothing to ask.

8

Appreciate all the input. Think I may just bite the bullet and by 1/2 capes of the better whiting capes in brown and grizzly and I love the idea of pre-assembling some white biots for princes.

Tom

9

i have whiting and conranch hackles and my vote has to go to whiting on that one.

10

TomRC,

You wrote,

“Just started tying a couple of months ago and having a blast. … I’ve about got the basics down and am willing to spend the $ on better materials if the difference in cost is worth it.”

Would you care to define ‘basics’?

Deezel

11

I really need to cast my vote for Conranch (on the sponsors page). IMHO they wind on the hook better, do not split and just are better in general. A lot less money for the quality you get too. You might at least give him a phone call. You might be surprised. Just my opinion though. :slight_smile:

12

I, tie, with Denny’s excellent hackles, Whiting’s, Keogh, Hoffman’s and a few others.
Conranch raises some super nice birds and his prices are hard to beat, for “quality against dollars spent”.

Maybe, as you mentioned with the biots, your hackles are fine and it’s “operator error” that’s giving you fits, when tying off your hackles? I’m SURELY NOT trying to insult, anyone, but as you stated, “I’ve only been tying a couple of months” and winding hackles on a fly, “properly” isn’t always something learned “over night”.
It depends, A LOT on hackle quality, of course. But, it also has to do with hook size, to hackle size, which part of the individual feather you are using to tie with and it can even make a difference depending on the size and type thread you’re tying with.

Often times, it's as simple as "where on the feather, you begin tying it in". If you start too far down, the hackle's quill, yes, it can seem AND BE, very thick and hard to work with. And, if starting "to far down the quill", that also means by the time you've made the wraps you're after, you could STILL BE, too far down the quill, where it's still too large to work with very easily.

Practice, winding a few hackles, without any other materials on a hook.Make sure you’re using the upper end of your hackle.
It’s very possible that the cape you have, may not be of good quality but I wouldn’t toss it just yet until you do a lot more practicing with it!!??!
Just an idea.

13

With regards to “basics” I have tackled the following flies and although not great they look pretty good IMO.

Woolly Bugger
Adams
Prince Nymph
Hares Ear
March Brown
Elk Hair Caddis
Pheasant Tail
Plus a couple more that I don’t know the names of but were shown samples of at the Fish Hawk in Atlanta that I have since copied.

I decided when I started back in February I would pick a few basic flies to focus on to learn the “basics” before tacking more complicated ones. As an avid bass fisherman I’m really interested in tackling a Dahlberg Diver and some Clouser Minnows next. Thanks again for all the input. Lots of fun for sure!!!

Tom

14

I’ve used both the Keough and Whiting and for a beginning tyer, I definitely recommend the Whiting. It’s more expensive, but I find it more uniform and less prone to twisting. The Keough capes tend to be more ‘journeyman’ capes and at least one of mine was subject to twisting during the wrapping. This was extremely frustrating while I was learning since I thought it was me when it was the feather. Now that I’m a bit better tier and I understand what the hackle is doing, I’m better able to deal with it. So Whiting gets my vote here. But you don’t have to get the silver grades - go with the half capes since they’ll last you a long time.

TxEngr

15

denny will also sell split necks. thats good when you are just getting started.

16

Not going to knock any of the genetic breeders and I’ll keep my favorite to myself. Regardless, I’m kind of surprised no one mentioned the Whiting - ‘Hebert’ line of necks. Pro Grade is a good way to start.

Deezel