Just a thought

FAOL Community Sound Off
1

It occurs to me to wonder just WHY does FAOL lose subscribers. Seems like some of them just ?fall off the cliff? never to be heard from again. I know a few instances where there were squabbles with the owners . But legitimate or not, we?re talking an Internet site where only egos may possible be bruised. No money is lost and no purchased products are misrepresented. No REAL reason to take ones ?business? elsewhere. Despite my ?member since? stats, I have been with FAOL since the Moses and wicker basket thing. I?ve seen em come and I?ve seen em go, therefore my wondering.
I myself once had a squabble with HIMSELF over HIS acerbic attack on a subscriber who wrote a very nice fishing report but posted it in the ?wrong? forum. There were a few similar instances before that and I had had enough. I posted my sentiment suggesting that HIMSELF refill the prescriptions HE was apparently out of. And suggested to HIM how he should run his business. Maybe my ?suggestion? WAS a bit over the line and HIMSELF spared NO words in letting me know that. Finally we did come to an agreement. HE: perhaps I was NOT that far off base, ME: maybe I should mind my OWN business. As time has a tendency to do, that wound eventually healed.
As I have stated many times, my contribution to FAOL is more in adding a number to the subscriber list and at times posting something just to raise a pulse. I hope I or any of my opinionated posts have not caused anyone to leave FAOL ( there may have been a few) . I may be on some ?ignore? lists but hopefully not on ?ignorant? lists. But having said that, WHY do folks ?go away??.
I?ve always wanted to ask, ?whatever happened to???
AND, by the way, what did ever happen to???..?

Mark

2

Marco,

I think some people get involved here, as the sport de jour. That itch gets scratched, and they move on. It may seem cruel hearted, but … other than a very few people whom I miss terribly, I don’t give it much thought!

I know it couldn’t POSSIBLY be from anything I’ve ever said!!!

Betty

3

Your daily dose of ‘what?’, brought to you by Marco, ladies and gentlemen. :wink:

If I may, I’ll chop out the middle 80% of that one and respond to what I did manage to glean from it.

It occurs to me to wonder just WHY does FAOL lose subscribers. Seems like some of them just ?fall off the cliff? never to be heard from again. I know a few instances where there were squabbles with the owners . But legitimate or not, we?re talking an Internet site where only egos may possible be bruised. No money is lost and no purchased products are misrepresented. No REAL reason to take ones ?business? elsewhere. Despite my ?member since? stats, I have been with FAOL since the Moses and wicker basket thing. I?ve seen em come and I?ve seen em go, therefore my wondering.

The same reason, but in the inverse.

In short: why not? Its just an internet site. No real reason to stay, especially if it has turned into a source of aggravation, or ceased to be a source of enjoyment. While I do enjoy the site, I can certainly see, in some situations, why people would choose not to come back. While FAOL is certainly among the most tame, polite communities I frequent, that same dynamic also has the effect of harboring many individuals that are fairly thin-skinned, easily offended, and/or hypersensitive. For many, that sort of atmosphere seems uptight and stuffy, whereas many other forums are more free and laid back…if harsher, coarser, and less tolerant. Its all just personal preference.

4

My guess is the majority of members do some of the following: Only come on to get a question or two answered then leave. They lurk but do not engage with the community, just reading and gathering information, lose interest in fly fishing, and lastly, forget about the site when their fishing season is over.

Paul

5

People come and go. Some folks are “opening day” fisherman…some are year long diehards. Come archery season in the fall…you will rarely see me. But I tie all year long, so there is a common glue there. Not all have that.

Also, I have to make some “friends” in order to keep me. I have here in short order. Also, a number of good friends ofver the years have recently come here as well from another board as I did.

The mention above about how it’s “tame & polite” here can have something to do with it. It can be hypersensitive here:^) Some get pushed away by that.

In the end…I’m here…because I’m here. If that changes…I’ll be elsewhere:^) Like many others.

6

Marco…my dear Marco…your’e the only reason I came back from my self imposed exile after I was chastised for saying B.S. on this forum. Actually, I might have said a little more than that. :mrgreen:

As far as HIMSELF goes, he was always tolerant of me and considering I use to equate fly tying with drinking Canadian whiskey, then feeling the need to post on FAOL, that says a lot.

7

I think that many lose interest in the internet thing. The articles and threads here begin to repeat after a while and folks just go fishing until they have a reason to check back in. I know that I respond to fewer posts than I once did if I feel that I have allready exposed my ignorance in that area.

8

I use to equate fly tying with drinking Canadian whiskey, then feeling the need to post on FAOL, that says a lot.

And there have been times when I’ve posted AFTER drinking Canadian whiskey (well Tequila, but the after effect is pretty much the same).

There are times when I post more than others.
Jeff

9

You’re a good guy Jeff. :tieone:

10

FINALLY back from a rough day. And, as to this thread , however, I should have narrowed my " wonder" to long timers, prolific posters ( they shall remain unnamed) etc. To me it’s a bit like mr. gore divorcing after 40 years. WHAT??? In any case, I understand the short/sometimers peeking in for a few and splitting. It’s those “others” who I wonder about. Why and where have they gone? I must also explain that I , because i merely fly fish and fly fishing (as I indicated in another thread)is NOT my way of life, have no need to leave here for greener pastures . I do not visit other sites other than maybe once or twice as a matter of curiosity so maybe for that reason I feel no need to leave. I really don’t know what’s out there but also don’t have the time or need to find out.
This is a warm , cuddly place for the most part with few exceptions. I could be one of those exceptions but you can make that call.

Mark
PS: Nam, I read your comment and got this warm feeling. NO, I checked :slight_smile:
THAT being said, I’d rather be in Wyoming.

11

Interesting thread Mark, I know we’ve lost some because HIMSELF blew people off, some have come back, but not with the same enthusiasm they started out with. I read that the average person sticks with a “hobby” about three years, fly fishing seems to fall into that. Most of our readers aren’t average take that any way you wish. Here’s the sad one, we’ve lost some folks because they died - others who were their friends just found it too painful to be around here after those deaths. We lost some after Al Campbell died, when Ron Koenig died, and some when HIMSELF passed. There was a string on Fly Fisherman that FAOL would be gone in a month after Al died. They aren’t making predictions any more…
I’m interested in everyone’s comments on this one.
Hugs,
LF

12

LF,
Honestly, I think there are a lot of reasons. Boredom could be one. This, like many other forums, after a while, the same threads start showing up. How many times is “which 5wt rod should I buy”, “what’s the best tippet, mono or fluro”, “what’s the best fly for XYZ fish” interesting to read.

I try to respond to all of those to which I have something to add. If for no other reason, there were so many who helped me out several years ago when I first started fly fishing. I kind of feel like passing on the tradition.

I believe, as you stated, some move on to other interests after the “new” wears off.
Some probably get their feelings hurt over something said, or see a flame war going on and think to themselves, “Hey, I fish and talk about fishing to escape this c**p in my everyday life, why should I spend my liesure time with it?”
Some just drift away for one or more of these reasons.
The key, are new ones coming to replace? Is the community healthy. Can it survive a couple flame wars and disagreements intact without scorching the earth during the retreat.

I think if the answers to the last series of questions is “Yes” it’s OK.

Jeff

13

Death in a family can do one of two things; either solidify or weaken.
In the case of FAOL I truly believe it’s the former.
Part of J.C.'s lasting legacy?

14

… Jeff pretty much said what I was thinking.

On the question of how “healthy” the BB is presently, I do have a couple thoughts.

First, the center of gravity, if I can call it that, seems to have shifted somewhat over the past couple years. When I first logged on, there seemed to be more participation from the eastern part of the country, and now there seems to be more from the western part of the country. Not sure that is really true, but that is the way it strikes me. The better the balance, the better the board. There do seem to be some signs recently that the balance is being restored.

Second, there seems to be less participation in the way contributing - people actually stepping up with Reader’s Casts articles, recipes for food, and recipes for flies, as in the FOTW feature. I have been thinking the past couple months about posting some kind of challenge to all the fly tiers to get with it and start putting up some FOTWs. Just noticed your comment on another thread to that effect.

Third, and this one is rather difficult to word properly, there seems to be less appreciation, overall, of the contributions made by fly tiers and rod builders and other contributors to the forums. One example from a couple months ago still really bothers me - a member posted a thread on his first ever bamboo rod build and only a couple people posted a reply to that thread. A year or two ago an accomplishment like that would have resulted in a significant number of replies, recognizing the rod builder for his effort. There are many other examples I could cite.

My thought is that these changes likely reflect the economic hardships so many are facing right now - less time and energy, and less inclination, to contribute and appreciate, and generally harder times in the eastern part of the country than out west. If I am right, the Bulletin Board will rebound and be healthier than ever when the economy improves. In the meantime, maybe folks can just make a point of making this a better place in whatever way they, as individuals, can.

John

15

Hey Marco…

:wink:

16

Some are battling very serious physical and mental infirmities. It requires a tremendous amount of time and energy just to stay alive sometimes.

17

Ladyfisher would know better than I,but I just don’t buy the suggestion that FAOL is “unhealthy” and that includes the BB.
John, as usual, makes good points that are hard to ignore.
Jeff, as usual, is looking for that BB utopia where everyone sings kumbaya…good luck with that.
People have left the board, or at least have taken a hiatus, because of the format change. What’s up with that?

Like I said John…you usually get my attention. I’ll take that FOTW challenge even though I’ll probably embarrass myself in the process…
But what is the bottomline…will my offerings alone or collectively with others make the BB “healthier”…if it is indeed sick??? I suppose even my offerings couldn’t hurt. :shock:

18

Amen Rainbowchaser!

19

… and they really are two different things. Sometimes as a BB member, I tend to forget that. Then I visit the site without logging on to the BB and find it a difficult place to stumble around and not nearly so complete as we regular BB members see it.

Not long after I started fly fishing, I found the FAOL site. For about four years, I read a whole bunch of stuff there, looked at so many FOTWs I got headaches from reading patterns and tying instructions, figured out how to build a rod if and when I was ever so inclined, and every Monday morning looked forward to the new edition.

In the fall of '07, I finally clicked “Bulletin Board” on the home page main menu. I started reading stuff there. It was kind of cumbersome to follow the threads since visitors then couldn’t follow them the way we do as members. But there were some great folks posting interesting and fun stuff. The atmosphere on the BB was great - and it was all brand new to me. The contributions of just a few people were what convinced me to join and participate on the Bulletin Board. It then became a vehicle for me to start paying back for all that I learned and enjoyed over the four years of visiting the site.

Maybe it is just my own computer and the operating system and browser and all that good stuff that I use to access the internet and the FAOL site, but from my point of view things have changed for the worse. And I don’t mean what is available here if you can access it - I think that Deanna, Neil, Tom, and Ron are doing a great job on content, even if they do have to occasionally ask for contributions rather than just have folks serve them up.

The problem that I see, and consider unhealthy for the site, is ACCESS for visitors and / or members who are not logged on to the Bulletin Board. Like I said above, maybe it is an isolated problem and not a generalized situation. If you read this post, I do ask that you try to wander around the site for a while not logged on and report your experience here as feedback to Deanna.

Specifically - go to the Fly Tying Feature on the main menu and look at the FOTW archives, or go to the Reader’s Cast Feature and look at the archive there. They both end with entries almost a year ago. The same is true of some of the other features. If you were a visitor, what would you make of this and what question would you ask ?? “Has this place died ?” is the question that comes to my mind.

Another thing to try. Come to the Bulletin Board but don’t log on. Go to a forum and access a thread. Fine, you can read the original post. But now try to read the “replies” by clicking on one of them. When I do that, I get a momentary look at that “reply” and then the system defaults me back to the list. No way can I follow a thread. If this had happened to me when I first found the Bulletin Board, no way would I have followed it long enough to become interested in joining it. ( Some may now be saying under their breath “damn…”:roll: ) That would have been a great loss to me.

Finally, all those great Monday morning articles are readily available for one week, and whenever you want to read them if you know where to find them on the Reader’s Voice Forum - if you become familiar with the Bulletin Board, and especially if you become a member of the BB. If you don’t take that step, you might not stick around long or revisit this place.

So I have to wonder how many visitors get discouraged from reading the threads on the Bulletin Board, whatever forum they are on, and how many potential members walk away without ever having the chance to really enjoy what is here and contribute to it.

John

If I could only make one concrete suggestion it would be - make the Bulletin Board as accessible and user friendly to non-members as it is to logged on members.

20

OK…I logged out and see what you mean.
I assume this has been a problem since the site’s makeover. If so, I’m inclined to believe they’re glitches
that either the administration was unaware of or hasn’t gotten around to fix yet.
I think the forum thing in particular would discourage visitors /potential new members.
But what are we talking about here,sickness or growing pains???