Is this good for the fish?

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
1

This was sent to me to see what I thought of the method. After watching the video I’m not sure. I have been fishing on the PM in Mich. and seen guys lining salmon and think that it is a skill and a proper way to fish. They are sight fishing and using bright amnesia so they see it enter the mouth, then they pull it through and snag the fish on the outside of the mouth.
What do you think of this new way?

I am all about the fish, 100% release. If this is better for the survival rate should it be used?
As of now it would not be allowed in most states.

http://www.moffittangling.com/control/system

2

Hi Al

Looks like the old hopper/ dropper trick—fish goes for the hopper and gets the line in his mouth and the dropper gets him as the line slides through his mouth.

You dont have to go to the pm to see guys lining fish the same way—just go to the lake Erie tribs in the spring.

3

Interesting, especially if you are releasing the fish, or even if you plan to keep a couple. I know how bad some fish can get hooked and not survive when released, from past experience.

4

looks like an interesting system but not sure of the legality here in Indiana as it might be considered snagging.

5

Just my take… It may be well intentioned, but it IS snagging in that the line is dragged through the mouth and the hook sinks on the outside of the jaw (or potentially the eye or gill plate??). The technique also seems like it and would provide “cover” for those that would deliberately line or lift holding fish. For folks concerned about hurting fish, better to go barbless to reduce damage or just use a circle hook to grab the jaw IMHO.

peregrines

6

The more I look at the setup, it looks like you are lining the fish with an indicator fly. If you are sight fishing it would aid you in locating the line at the mouth and you would be snagging the fish.

7

I believe that it is called flossing. I’ve done it on accident quite a few times. I’ll fish a EHC and put a scud or midge as a dropper and catch them that way. I’m not sure how the Conservation Dept. would clarify this because its actually caught in the mouth. I always figure it as a snagged fish.

8

Not very sportsmanlike, in my opinion.

9

Seems like a method used to catch fish to KEEP. Too mechanical/gimmicky for my tastes. I enjoy fishing and the occasional catching by the old tried and true method. I vote NO on this one.

Mark

10

I hated it when a fish I caught would show some blood and that is why I quit fishing the flies that they swallow and in a manner that promotes it. Mostly I fish dry. This method would seem to allow you to fish a nymph or any wet fly downstream and keep the hook confined to the jaw area. The whole idea does not turn me on either, but may have some good points. If it will allow those who ‘must’ fish a certain way to do so and not harm the fish probably ok. Just smacks of snagging to me too.

11

In Wis if a fish is hooked outside of the jaw it is considered fowl hooked and must be released. I understand the concept, but not sure my willey game warden would. It’s an interesting concept but I would want a letter from my DNR (dept of natural resources) in my pocket as to the legality of this thing before I invested in it. Fishing barbless is a good option if you want to release everything and you don’t need a tool to release the fish.

12

I would like to know were this guy did his testing? Does anyone know of a state that it is legal to catch a fish on the outside of the mouth? Anytime I did hook one on the outside, I always considered it foul hooked and didn’t count.

13

Actually, this process seems altogether different to what we normally think of as lineing or flossing salmon. IMHO, fishing salmon on a redd is snagging no matter how it is done. These fish are only intrested in spawning anyway and mostly are nothing more than snags that move. Now many of you will disagree saying they hit my fly hard. But I would suggest that this is an exception, rather than a rule. Flossing is done by casting across the redd and letting the line drift down to hopefully catch in the salmon’s mouth. The salmon didn’t strike the fly, it didn’t even know it was there.

This Moffit method involves the fish actually striking the fly. You then replace the fly with a hook with one quick jerk. Different that the fish sitting there like a dumb a-- and having a line drift into it’s mouth.

Now I didn’t say that I agreed with all the hype and I haven’t said that I like it. I’d have to try it a bit to get convinced. But it is different than snagging, lineing, or flossing, in my opinion - all which I think are impropper techniques.

And BTW, steelhead will hit and hit hard while spawning - especially those boys waiting down below the redd in the pocket. See the hatchet cast article several weeks ago on this site.

Godspeed and good fishing,

Bob

14

Washington and Alaska for two.

The method seems to me to be just a form of flossing but in the two states I mention it is legal and by some a preferred means of catching fish.

15

I don’t know but it seems to me that when you are watching when a fish gets near your fly and you jerk…you are snagging

16

I think I remember reading a similar method use in Alasksa involving pegging single beads above the hook. I think the rationale behind it was the same. Iam with Marco, I like the tried and true way.

17

ineteresting Tactic!

18

It’s snagging IMHO! Just like a spin guy who puts a weighted treble hook with some color to snag the fish.
Or like when fly fishing only guys put a hunk of worm on the fly to catch more fish.
All the folks fishing for big steelhead in shallow water, why not just use a fish spear? Or a crossbow with a string on a barbed arrow?
It is only snagging, but some get “mixed up” when they see the guy next to them catching lots with a spin rod and live bait… it makes people do strange things.
All the talk about how great it is to catch fish with a fancy, expensive fly rod… while a kid out fishes you with a snoopy pushbutton outfit and live worms.
Strange days!

19

After perusing the ‘website’ and watching their vodeo, I have to disagree with those who think they are intentionally ‘snagging’ the fish, as I understand the term.

From what I can tell from the site, they aren’t watching the fish and then pulling to hook them, they are getting the fish to strike their ‘fly/flies’ then setting the hook by pulling the fly ‘out’ of the fish’s mouth and the hook into the flesh at the side of the jaw.

From the content, it seems like their focus, other than the obvious monetary one, is to make it better for the fish, i.e; easier to release. Much of what they write and show is stuff about keeping hooks out of the delicate internal oral cavity tissue and the resultant harm and/or difficulty in removing hooks from such an area.

Since I believe that they are championing the cause of ‘catch and release’, whether or not the law requires fish hooked in such a manner to be ‘released’ is a moot point, as is whether or not it ‘counts’.

From just my first instinctual reaction to their ‘system’, I’d think this would make it harder to catch fish, rather than the reverse. They are counting on the fish getting the line into it’s mouth and the line remaining there while the angler ‘strikes’. Things could go wrong, like the fish turing away and line coming out of the mouth, the hook ‘missing’ the fish’s jaw, etc… They are using a circle hook, so if it doesn’t hit the ‘jaw’ edge, it won’t hook the fish…

They also claim that you can use a brace of flies with only one hook at the ‘bottom’ of the rig…again, this means that to hook the fish that hits the ‘top’ fly, you have to pull the other flies AND the line through the mouth without the fish reacting is such a way that the line leaves the oral cavity…not so sure about that one.

One concern I have is the line and hook catching on the front fins. If the fish keeps moving after the strike, the line could lay alongside the fish, and a circle hook can catch on the fin/body joint…

All in all, though, if you are concerned mostly with the health of the fish and not about how many you actually ‘land’, this may be a helpful concept.

I am curious about the idea of flies tied on something other than hooks or tubes, though. The idea of tying a size 24 midge and still having a size 10 circle hook in the fish is intriguing. As is the idea of fewer tangles in multi nymph rig…

Like many things, it will have it’s adherents and it’s detractors.

As far as legal or illegal, it would take a picky warden and a heartless judge to issue and convict for this system. It’s not just about the ‘letter’ of the law…

Buddy

20

Thought the same thing. http://troutbeads.com/Products.html

In reading info from this site, they claim the fish are hooked inside the mouth. How is their method different?