Hunting

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
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I have nothing against the right to bear arms, the second amendment was made for a good reason and now it is part of your culture and long may it stay so. When I was in Florida for the last Fish In, I had pretty much the best part of the day to kill, after breakfast it went for a drive to do a little exploring and ended up in a range having a whale of a time with a 9mm, it had been a while. In the UK the culture is to legislate against the proliferation of arms. Why upset the status quo by suddenly allowing weapons to become readily available, it will just bring about different set of problems. I think we are all agreed that the law often doesn?t show it?s teeth and lack manpower to enforce it. Crime; any crime is wrong regardless. Just yesterday four teenagers where given light sentences for taking someone?s life. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4637382.stm:7c599]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4637382.stm[/url:7c599] a crime motivated by a teenage fad. There were no weapon involved, but the crime was brutal.

You know in Yorkshire before Christmas a woman police officer was shot dead and her female colleague shot and injured when they attended a call to a robbery and met the criminals as they came out of the shop they were robbing. [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4598286.stm:7c599]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4598286.stm[/url:7c599] A mother of three young children; this crime galvanised politicians to call for arming the police. The police are the people who resisted this call; here the police volunteer to carry arms.

You do not even have to Google to find reports of crime in the UK, just go to the BBC, there are reports every day. I am certain it is the same if you go to the New York Time website (to which I subscribe) or the Washington Post site. Crime happens and it gets reported.

Although I agree with the essence of what you have written Lady Fisher, I think what gets me is the way that the UK is held up as an example of how gun control doesn?t work. You know what; over here they use the US as an example of how limited gun control doesn?t work. Why don?t people look at the problems in their own backyard, rather than mitigate or find justification for the problems, by peering over the fence and holding the magnifying glass on what is going on there. It is like comparing eggs and apples.

JME
@===----?----?----?

[This message has been edited by JME (edited 24 January 2006).]

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To strike , to die ?

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Here in Louisiana, where we have a very deeply rooted hunting culture, it’s hard to find a house that doesn’t have a gun in it (I have several.) I live in a small community and in this county there are perhaps max two murders a year, a half dozen non lethal violent crimes. Breaking and entering is not unheard of, but it’s usually too dangerous a proposition for the perp.

There’s an old saying that probably is used with every such group, but here goes: A dozen Cajuns, a case of beer and you got a small army at your disposal.

[url=http://www.native-waters.com:2235b]http://www.native-waters.com[/url:2235b]

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hmmm…roger, i’m not comforted by a dozen drunk armed cajuns…

I’m with florida flyer on this one. I think the NRA and gun owners would do themselves and the nation a service if they would get behind bans on assault weapons, cop killer bullets, ceremic guns that can’t be detected by a metal dector, etc. that would give the nra and gun owners legitimacy with the non-gun crowd, and put them in a position to control the debate. but when they fight a ban on high velocity cop killing bullets, or fight a ban on guns that can pass through metal detectors, they just sound like a bunch of kooks. a side note on the nra–why doesn’t the gun industry have a lobby, when every other industry does (tobacco, et al)? because the nra kindly performs that function for them. paid, of course.

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Dave

I have to agree with you about the NRA. I was a member for a number of years back in the 80’s. Now let me say that their hunter safety education programs for young people are second to none. And their Amercian Hunter and American Shooter magazines were some of the best publications I ever received. But, the very things you mentioned is what finally turned me off and resulted in me not renewing my membership. Not to mention that about every month I would receive urgent action mail from them telling me that if I didn’t send them money right away, the anti-gun police were waiting at the end of my street to come busting down my door and take my guns. Well that was 20 years ago and they haven’t come yet.

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Actually, the gun industry does have their own lobby, thank you. It is actually made up of several different organizations, led by the National Shooting Sports Foundation. There is also a manufacturer’s association, but I don’t recall the name of it. THE MEDIA only reports on the NRA.

“Cop-killer” bullets are a red herring. The FBI definition included 22LR bullets, the most common sporting ammo in the world and largely considered minimally lethal to anything but small game. 30-30 and 30-06 bullets would have been “cop killers” under that definition, and these are the most common deer hunting calibers. Most big game is most effectively/humanely hunted with high velocity, prefragmented/partitioned bullets…the very essence of “cop killer” ammo. And that’s why the NRA opposed that legislation. And there is no commercial firearms mfg producing a “ceramic” gun that will pass through metal detectors…never has been. These firearms only exist in the movies and on the Internet. The few designs that do exist were published in works like “The Anarchists’ Cookbook” by nutjobs. Working prototypes can be made on a custom basis. They are low-capacity (usually 1 or 2 shots), not very accurate, and fire low-velocity bullets…which are still metal and cannot pass through magnetometers. So the NRA saw no reason to jump on that bandwagon either. The NRA opposes the so-called Assault Weapons Ban because it classifies firearms primarily on aesthetic characteristics. In other words, if it looks “mean,” it’s illegal. Beyond that, the sport shooting/collector market is of vital importance to the firearms mfgs for developing military/paramilitary weapons systems. They rely heavily on these diehard, extremely law-abiding, mostly law enforcement/retired military shooters to do a lot of their field testing and to recommend improvements to function and safety. But that’s barely an issue in the grand scheme of the AWB. Mostly, it banned a lot of very reasonable sporting/hunting firearms for no good reason and left other very capable paramilitary firearms like the Ruger Mini-14 on the market simply based on how they LOOK. An excellent example of how this plays out in the real world follows…

I was contacted 2 years ago by a firearms mfg from Idaho who had a prototype for a new combat shotgun for the US military. The military had come to them begging them to build it. They had been begging the industry to build it for over a decade, and none of the major mfgs…foreign or domestic…would even touch it. Their design specs would render the shotgun illegal to private consumers. Thus, no civilian market meant NO EARLY RETURN ON INVESTMENT. And that meant way too much risk. If you understand mfging, you know that developing and building a product specifically to be mass produced for ONE customer…especially the gov’t…is a very dangerous proposition. There are no market factors with zero competition. That means the gov’t will dictate your price or refuse to buy them at all, leaving you busted. Well, the US military is still begging someone to build this shotgun. With no civilian market, it just isn’t a viable business plan.

Very reasonable people who actually know their business and who take the social responsibility aspects of their industry very seriously come up with these positions in regard to legislation. NOBODY is a bigger advocate of the safe, lawful use of firearms, has a tougher anti-crime and pro law enforcement stance, or does more to promote firearms safety/security than the NRA!

My New Year’s resolution is to have more fun…even if YOU don’t.

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Jamie, you misunderstood. The gun anti’s here hold up Britain as an example of what WE SHOULD BE DOING. They totally ignore the fact that it (by the reports by Brits, from Britain) isn’t working.

LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

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9 - Thats the number of times hunting is mentioned in this thread. 1-the number of times it’s used in a context other than gun controll.
How bout some talk about hunting, and possibly a seperate thread for gun controll discussion?

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Fullwells

Could it be that is because 1/3 of LF’s article talked about hunting and the rest dealt with gun control and the increase in crime in Great Britan?

What do you think stirs the passion more in one’s soul. Reliving those thrilling days of yesteryear and how things use to be? Or, talking about gun rights or lack there of and crime increase because of guns or lack there of? Hmmm?

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Here’s a little good news for the hunters among us:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“1” face=“Verdana”>quote:</font><HR>New Jersey Animal Activist Faces Terrorist Threat Charge

A New Jersey man could spend up to five years in prison for allegedly threatening the lives of two hunters during the six day New Jersay bear hunting season.

On Dec. 14, Albert Kazemian of Vermon, New Jersey pleaded not guilty in municipal court to charges that he threatened the outdoorsmen on Dec. 7.

Kazemian is to appear in Superior Court in Newton on Dec. 27.

Charges stem from a report by State Park Officer Walter Sandord which say that on Dec. 7, he and two hunters were confronted by Kazemian in the field. The report quotes Kazemian by saying “I’ll get my Arab friends to hunt your down; see you you like it.” He and one of four other activists then asked where the hunters lived.

Officer Stanford “asked ‘why’ and asked if they were going to kill us. I looked at Mr. Kazemian, who tilted his head slightly, raised his eyebrows and shrugged his shoulders at me in the typical way most people would say ‘I don’t know’ or ‘Maybe.’”

When Sanford identified himself as law enforcement and told the anti’s they were under arrest, Kazemian reportedly backed away and struggled with the officer while the others walked away into the woods. According to the report, activist Angela Metler, director of the New Jersey Animal Rights Alliance, “hid behind a very large rock.”

Standord called for backup, and four of the five activits were arrested and charged with hunter harassment, disorderly conduct, obstructing the administration of law and resisting arrest. A fifth, an unidentified woman, escaped into the woods.

The ranger had gone into the woods with the two sportsmen in repsonse to hunter harassment complaints. The three men entered the woods and were soon followed by five anti’s wearing “Wounded Bear Rescue” T-shirts. Sanfords report tell that the anti’s surrounded the men and began a verbal assault.

The U.S. Sportemen’s Alliance helped ensure the enactment of hunter harassment laws in all 50 states. Such laws have been upheld in several court rulings, including a 2000 decision by the New Jersey Court of Appeals that the harassing speech or conduct is not protected by the First Amendment and the State is justified in limiting the time, place, and manner of this speech/conduct.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

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We never have anything exciting like that happen here in Iowa. The last time PETA showed up, some women did paint themselves to look like felines. The fact that they were naked, did turn some heads from the downtown lunch crowd.

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The only thing that would be a better story than that is if one of those idiots had dressed up in a bear suit and gone out to protest. This brings up a question. Did any of these people ever take a zoolgy class, let alone a science class of any kind? I remember learning in kindergarten that theres this thing called a food chain, and humans are pretty much at the top of it these days.

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Actually anglerdave;

Over here on this side of the state (close to Council Bluffs [or Counciltucky as some call it]) There were at least three times last year where ELF and/or ALF vandalized mink farms, destroying the buildings and cages and even burned some at one farm. Made the news here in Omaha. Probably happened more than three, but I remember at least that many.

Don

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Anybody read John Lott?
I find his research to be very enlightening on the gun control subject.

[This message has been edited by crook33 (edited 24 January 2006).]

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Indeed, one commentator called his research and arguements “bullet proof”.

LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL