Hey there!
I have read almost every single one of the tying tips on this site and searched high and low but I still cannot find any advice on how to prevent thread from slipping off of the font of my evidently too-smooth thread heads. How do you make a nice smooth angled head without the thread getting all bunched up around the eye of the hook?
Thanks!
Karli-Rae
minimize your thread wraps. it doesnt take 50 wraps of thread to tie off the materials and build a head.
reserve one hook eye length for the head. nothing goes in this space except the minimal thread wraps of the head.
use enough tension when wrapping the thread. no loose wrapping.
if you really need to, apply some super glue with a bodkin tho the thread before wrapping the head.
Thanks Normand! I will focus on doing all of those things consistently.
If Normands #4 is done correctly, no need for a whip finish, creating an even smoother head.
When building those bulky bullet heads on Atlantic Salmon flies, the key to keeping the thread from slipping is wax on the thread. Not dubbing wax, but tying wax. Simply not as sticky, but helps keep the thread wraps in place. It also hellps keep materials in place.
REE
It has been amazing to me what minimal thread wraps and a dubbing needle dab of cement will do to improve the durability and appearance of flies. Fewer turns of thread is a plus. Piling on thread wraps is wasted effort.
In my experience, how I cut excess materials at the eye is important in finishing of the head of a fly. I try to cut the material off at an angle from front to back, not coming in from the side which causes a ledge to contend with. Unless you fill up the ledge with thread the wraps will continue to slip forward, and if you are filling ledges you are adding bulk to the head of the fly. What’s required is that each material is trimmed at an angle to allow that nice taper at the head.
Nice effects can also be done to the head with the aide of some flat nosed pliers after a dab of laqueur. By applying a squeeze to the head either horizontaly or vertically and then applying the finish coat of cement, you can shape a head to your liking.
Good luck. A well done finished head is what separates a mediocre fly from a well thought out crafted one. You’re on tract to becoming an accomplished fly tier.
Hi Albasurf,
If you are trying to build up a head, how you apply the thread can make a difference. I try to apply the thread in smooth layers. To do this, I first wrap down the material to get it firmly held in place, and then try to make a smooth slope from the hook shank up the head, forming a cone that is larger at the materials end of the head, and small at the hook eye end of the head.
Once the basic cone form of the head has been established, but more thread needs to be added to build the head just a bit more I do this by starting the first wrap on the bare hook shank at the front of the head, and then wrap (one wrap at a time) up the head. Thus the first wrap goes around the hook shank, the next is directly against the first, but goes “up” the thread head and toward the bend end of the shank. The next wrap goes next to the second, again “up” the thread head, so the build up of thread slowly crawls up the thread head, and at the top I return the thread to the base and start the next layer “up” the head again, directly on top of the previous layer of thread. The head is thus build up by “flat” layers of thread, each thread wrap supported from sliding down the head by the previous wrap.
All wraps are fairly tightly done, one wrap hard up against the previous wrap. As such you will usually end up with a strong thread head, with little tendency to slide down or creap off the front of the hook.
A few simple “don’ts” may help. Don’t try to build up the head by wrapping “down” the head by starting the wraps at the material end of the head and wrapping toward the hook eye. Don’t use loose thread wraps, keep the thread at least moderately tight as you wrap, a good rule all of the time while tying, not just will finishing the head, and I usually try to work just a little below the breaking point of the thead. Don’t try to build up the thread by building up one spot at a time, again lay down the thread in layers. Finally do not try to make too steep of a cone shape toward the front of the head, rather a moderate taper will work better.
These may be too simple minded, and if so my apology.
I have great confidence that you will get this small problem under control quickly with just a little bit more practice.
Regards,
Gandolf
Karli-rae,
For the vast majority of us, adhereing to Normands #2 will solve the problem. Leaving room for the head of the fly is something most struggle with, even after years of tying.
After that, it’s just practive.
Good Luck!
Buddy
One other thing I didn’t see mentioned was basic thread control - i.e. untwisting the thread so it lays flat (acts more like a ribbon) when tying the head. This article gives some excelent info on thread control and how you use the effect on the whole fly. http://www.invictaflies.us/Articles/Epoxied%20Floss%20Streamers/epoxied_floss_streamers.htm.
It pbrobably uses 100 words to answer your question - where only 10 were needed! What can I say - I talk the same way!!
Kim
Another tip is to " Flatten The thread" … By this I mean untwisting the thread until it lays flat as you wrap it. It will give you a smoother head.
Neil
PS: Darn I’m a slow typer Kim beat me to it…
You didn’t mention what kind of flies you’re tying. All the advice above is useful, but not necessarily for all flies. For example, if you’re trying to build up a head, say on a streamer (maybe you want to paint eyes on it) then minimizing wraps isn’t the answer, but for most flies, it is.
A couple of other suggestions:
(This is idiotically simple, but it took me forty years to figure out) Turn the fly over. If you have a rotary vise, just rotate it 180 degrees. If you don’t have a rotary vise, pop it out of the vise and invert. The thread is far less likely to slip off the eye if the eye is sticking up. If you follow the advice given above, you shouldn’t need to do this very often, but as Buddy pointed out, all of us still crowd the head on occasion, even though we know better. (It seems more likely to happen to me if I accidentally cut the thread while trimming a hackle stem.) Use this trick in just such an emergency.
Sometimes when you’re building up head on say, a bucktail, you get a little “step” where the bucktail ends. The same thing happens to a lesser extent with a quill wing on a wet fly. The natural tendency is to wrap over the top of that step to force it down. That just makes it worse. It makes the step all that much higher, and thread then slips forward off it. Resist the temptation to do the “natural” thing. Build up the head from the front to back; the step should be the last thing you wrap over.
Gandolf,
Not to simple-minded at all! Thank you very VERY much for such a clear and wonderfully detailed explanation! I realized, through your description, and I was wrapping the the thread up the head, and then back down (which is when it would slip), instead of starting over all the way at the bottom! Eureka! Thanks so much!
Karli-Rae
Genius! Yes to all of those things! Thank you!
Buddy, Kimba, Neil,
Thank you all so much for the great advice! I’m definitely going to use it and I’ll post some pictures of before and after thread head pics!
lol
