I am re-reading Eric Leiser’s book on the Dettes’ and other early New England tiers.
What I have wondered about for years is this: What separates/separated an enthusiast tier from one who ultimately has a fly shop?
Hard to explain what I am getting at here. I know many guides who tie a lot. I know many purely non-professionals who tie a great deal. Many have tied a great deal for 30-40-beyond years. Now, I venture to say that most would tell you that during the first one to three or more years their flies were not consistent, high-quality flies even though they were tying high volumes.
Now, picture a young Walt Dette taking a Rube Cross fly he purchased apart one thread turn at a time to determine how it is tied. Then, in short order, be selling flies for a living and doing well at it. This without help from others in learning how to tie flies. No books with good instruction; no videos; no willing mentors; etc.
Now, you cannot say, I believe, that somehow Walt, Winnie and their daughter each happened to possess some miraculous talent from nature. Certainly they were talented, but they weren’t born with their skills.
So, for example, what did their first 800 dozen flies look like? At what point did their flies become high enough quality to have fishermen come to seek their flies?
Walt did not fly fish until a teenager. I don’t think he started tying flies until his early twenties.
I find this so interesting. I wish there were a better historical documentation of how they developed. How long it took them to “perfect” their craft. What did the first flies they sold look like. etc, etc, etc.
I don’t know the answer to your questions but, my tying instructor (Ian Anderson) told me a story attributed to Dave Whitlock. When asked how he, Whitlock, had gotten so good at tying flies he replied it was simple, he tied flies every day.
I took this to heart and for over a year I tied at least one and usually several more flies a day. I still tie flies every week at least. I doubt I have gotten “good” but the fish don’t seem to mind. It has also brought me closer to our craft. So much so I am now building my own rods. A fish caught on a fly you tied, on a leader you built on a rod you assembled…
To the basic terms Ability - Passion (Dedication) - Location. All three are necessary to be successful and move from a guy who piddles in his basement to a fly shop owner. A little good luck and expert guidance along the way will make it easier. You can improve your ability with practice if you have the passion, you can move to a good location if you have the passion and be successful if you have the ability, but you have to have all three to run a successful fly shop and sell your own flies.
While I agree with all the other answers you’ve gotten, I think that there’s another element that should also be taken into consideration. The law of supply and demand has always driven any marketplace, including flies for fishing. When many of these great tyers started their journey, the supply of well tied flies was not as abundant as it is now, nor were there so many other talented tyers out there. When you combined unique, high quality products with fish catching reputation, people beat a path to their doors to buy their flies. Now, most flies are tied over seas, mainly by women who have never fished and probably never will. They are fairly well tied, certainly good enough for most fish (and fishermen for that matter), and they can be purchased for about the same cost as just the materials here in the States. You just can’t compete with the priceing and still make a decent profit for your time.
To be successful in any business venture, you have to provide a product or service that people want and that they can’t get cheaper elsewhere. Even if you invented a great new pattern that was catching fish like crazy, once you put it into the marketplace, it would only take a matter of weeks before it was being replicated by other tyers around the world and sold for cheaper than you can tie it and sell it. That’s why I think most new inovative tyers, “invent” new products to tie new patterns and then sell their products not the flies they tie. Just my 2 cents worth.
I was taught by the dette’s, Flick, Darbys, schreibert, etc. Spent alot of my youth at their places. I didn’t open my shop till 4 years ago. 40+ years after learning to tie.
Byron, If you haven’t read the biography,s on both the Dette’s and Darby’s you should. You will have your questions answered. Also Mike Valla’s book on Tying Catskill Style Dry Flies.
Do you have to be a great tyer to be in the “business”? If you are in the “business” does that make you a great tyer? Are you only asking about the Dettes?
Dub
I’m asking about the “great tiers”, meaning the famous ones.
Even I did some commercial tying on the side for a while. But, that was after tying for 15 years or so.
James,
The Dettes’ were not tying unique patterns. They did have some of their own, but most were somewhat standard patterns.
I personally think much of their success was do their location and the lack of alternative sources for flies. There were some, but not like today and their location made them the most convenient.
Franz Pott stayed in business for decades. When he suspected someone of copying him, he put a special mark on his and checked his retailers inventory and cut them off if he found any counterfeits.
Today, we are in a world-wide marketplace. It is much more difficult for tiers to compete with foreign tied flies and with internet, etc., flies are available everywhere.
I think writing your own book, columnist for a newspaper , or writing atricles for magazines makes for “great” tyers. Tough to be considered great if nobody knows who you are.
How about it? Actually, per the Dettes’, Darbee and Walt were involved in wrapping rods. It was Winnie who first sold flies. As she, herself says, “My father had a cigar counter at the inn and he made a space for me where I could display the flies. I’m not sure if some of our guests bought them because they were good or they simply wanted to encourage me, but I did sell some and got a quarter apiece for them”.
It sort of seems to me that they became successful later in life because they had an entr?e to the local inn where the fishermen stayed and there was not a lot of competition at the time.
In the year 1930, they sold flies to a list of 360 people - many of whom stayed at the inn.
They gave up the inn due to losing money in 1933, I believe. It was not until then that they moved to Rockland and moved into a house owned by Winnie’s grandfather.
At this time (1933), Leiser says “This was perhaps the only period of time when both Walt and Winnie held no employment except the tying of their flies.”
In the year 1929, a look at the Dettes’ daily record of flies sold shows that between March 19 and May 19th, they sold $349.50 worth of flies, representing 125 dozen.
Bucky McCormick at Blue Ribbon Flies (who most have never heard of) ties approximately 800 dozen per year himself. Just one of their tiers.
You say, “I’m asking about the “great tiers”, meaning the famous ones”.
So do you mean famous at what time during their tying lifespan? There were many great tyers who became famous long after they were involved in fly tying. Was ‘Mr. Smith’ and ‘Mr. Jones’ great fly tyers during the Depression when they sold flies or did they become great fly tyers later in life when they were publioshed or started a large business? To me, a “great or famous” tyer is one who is known locally and/or by reputation among his/her contemporaries as a tyer of excellent quality flies. It has nothing to do with being an author, written articles, publicity, etc. although those activities may expand upon the number of people who accept the tyer as being an “expert”.
As stated, my personal definition, in this question, is a “famous” one. It would mean being well-know beyond local and even beyond regional.
The tiers mentioned frequently in articles, books, etc which have a national exposure.
i pondered this question while i was on the river for a bit today, and have decided i would consider it again while i fish tommorrow,and try to make sense of it then. Until then James Smith put it in the x ring, which will probably remain my solution to this thinking after i get back. Bucky ties some great flies. He has done some great dye work for me in the past.He is from New York. Go figure.