I have heard that when tying baitfish/streamer patterns those for trout were tied on longer shank hooks because trout usually attacked bait from the rear and hence were defined as “short strikers” while bass and other warm water fish attacked from the front of the bait making shorter hooks more suitable. Is this an “old wives tale” or is there some truth to it?
Ray,
I also have always heard that bass will take the baitfish’s head into its mouth first to kill it, but then a lot of hardware bass baits have a trailer hook, or “stinger” hook, on them, too. So…good question. I, obviously, don’t have the answer. Looking forward to it, though.
Joe
Many years ago when the Commonwealth of Massachusetts had OPEN and CLOSED fishing seasons it was a tradition to go out on the first day of “Fishing Season” even though the Bass and Bluegill were not ready to come play with us owing to the still frigid water temps. One year the fishing buddy and I dutefuly put the boat in and spent some time on the pond but had no luck what so ever. After pulling the boat in, I made one more cast to straighten out the line on my reel more than anything else and hooked a small (read that Very Small) bass. He was almost as long as the Rooster Tail (remember those?) and was well hooked. I took him off the hook and put him in the bottom of the cooler we carried, and took him home knowing if I had returned him to the pond he was done for. At home I put him in the fish tank in the dining room and in a series of larger and larger tanks, I raised Billy, as the daughters named him, to a size of over 6 pounds. In the years it took him to grow that big, he taught me many things about bass even if it was in a closed and un-natural enviorment.
To your question… A bass will take a bait any way that is convenient. I watched as he took them head first, tail first or from bottom to top, which was the most observed. I don’t believe there was any direction from which he did not take a bait.
Other observations:
If fed more minnows than he wanted to eat, he would eat his fill and then kill the other minnows. Once dead they would rot and he would have no more to do with them.
If there were 6 minnows in the tank and I put in one crayfish (or crawfish), the minnows were safe till the crayfish was gone. By a wide margin, his favorite food.
I lost some tropical fish in the beginning but learned valuable lessons in the 6 years that Billy lived in my house. At the end, I placed Billy, in the dark of night, in a pond that I knew was closed to fishing and in which a local fellow raised minnows to sell to the area bait shops, one of, in which I worked.
I’m sure I broke some game laws but it sure was interesting at the time.
Clint
Hi Clint. I wonder how big Billy is by now or do you suspect he died of obiesity? One other thought — Many classic trout flies for trolling are tied on 8X Long hooks that look quite unusual. Could this have been done since a trolled fly would probably be hit from the very rear and the pattern designer wanted to present the hook point most easily?
Ray
Ray,I think more guys would use longer hooks for streamer fishing,but they are tough to cast with trout gear.They use long streamers for trolling for both stability and because,you guessed it,they dont get casted. Lots of the old trolling streamers had the stinger hooks also.
I think any fish will hit there prey anyway they can,as Blugill Bud proved with his awesome bass story.
It has been my experience, that Blue Gills go for Nymphs, more than they go for Minnows. While Crappies go for Minnows, more than they go for Nymphs. Bass I fool on Streamers and even Salmon/Steelhead Flies, along with the ever popular “WOOLY BUGGER”.
For Pike and Muskie, I use very large Saltwater Patterns, and I do use Stainless Steel Hooks, you need them for these fish.
~ Parnelli
Chartered Member of “Friends of FAOL”!
Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too
“Swim” said the mama fishie, “Swim if you can”
And they swam and they swam all over the dam
[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 22 August 2005).]
Years ago I had a stock pond buried to ground level in my back yard in which I kept a couple of bass. Minnows and small goldfish were their common fare.What I found interesting was the way the bass took the small fish with very little expended effort.The bass would simply swim up behind the bait and flare their gills, sucking the bait into their mouth. Made me wonder how many fish I had missed becuse of the gentle take and the fact that the fly would not get sucked backward because of the leader holding it.
A very comic happening occurred one hot summer day. We had just returned from a trip and the fish had not been fed for a few days. I let my my two Labradors out into the backyard and the young female immediately bent over the edge of the pond to drink, head down, hind quarters skywad. Suddenly there was a hugh splash as the largest bass made a swipe at her tongue. The dog jumped about five feet straight up and then ran around the pond barking furiously, never getting too close to the edge. We still laugh about that sight.
[This message has been edited by Jim Cramer (edited 23 August 2005).]
I am in agreement that many long (Maine)streamers have long hooks because they were trolled, not cast. A practical reason to have a long hook on a cast(ed) streamer is so that the wing does NOT tangle in the hook as often. However, long hooks exert more torsion on the line when the fish fights.
I would also look at the pattern tied as to why they are on a long hook. I mean a traditional salmon fly needs to longer hook so that the fly has the correct proportions, and those patterns would not look right on a short shank dry fly hook in the same size. Wooley buggers and muddler minnows come to mind as patterns that need a longer hook too. Proportions, balance and intended use will usually dictate hook choice.
I am now tying half and halfs (deciever tail and a clouser style head) for use out in the Straigh of Juan DeFuca for silvers, tied on a Mustad Circle streamer #1/0. The hook is not much longer than a regular octupus hook, but I do not think I need the length of a longer streamer hook to hook thi fish or keep it on the line. I am not worried about balance, as the flies have dumbell eyes so they jig, and the proportions look just fine with a nice long saddle hackle tail. Most takes are pretty firm, and I have not noticed any more short takes than I would with a wooley bugger. Often times when we got a bump or what felt like a short take, if you simply let the fly dead drift and sink rather than keep stripping, the fish, or another one in the school would come by and take what must look like a injured herring.
When using bait on the downriggers, most people use a tandem hook rig. I hate to admit to it, but I do too (please dont ban me from the site cause I said the “B” word). I cannot recall noticing fish hooked on the rear hook only. Seems when they hit the bait, they would take it all in one bite. But it is bait, so they should. That being said, I have also trolled my flies on the downrigger, and have not noticed a difference in hooked fish.
Interesting question, as it has brought back a lot of good memories. I would not take what I have said as the truth, but simply another anglers experience and observations. I bet anyone that fishes a lot of salt out east would offer some insight too.
Have fun, Jeff
Tis my time on the water, in the mountains, and in my driftboat where I can see things as they really are.
Ray,
It has always been my thought that a trout/bass or any species that intends to eat another fish/minnow, will try to hit it at the head so that when they swallow it the dorsal fin will lay back and go down the throat without causing any injury. I think trout, which are usually in moving water, strike short because they are coming up from behind the fly. When I get a short strike, in fast moving water, I drop the rod to the fish for a second and then pick up the rod and slack and will usually have the fish on. I can visualize the trout coming up fast behind the streamer, striking the tail, and then when I drop slack to the streamer I can see the trout just opening it’s mouth and taking the fly. Another thought that I have been thinking about is that there are several times I lose fish, during the fight, when it just seems to come “unbuttoned”. I am thinking that a longer hook shank will lose more fish during the fight because it gives the fish leverage to “pop” the hook out on turning against the line pressure. I visualize the hook half way in the mouth and half out and when the fish turns the pressure from the rod and line pulling against the mid point of the shaft “pops” the hook out. If this is true, then one would think a shorter shank hook would be better since more of the hook would be inside the fishes’ mouth. Just thinking out loud here. Any thoughts from others would be interesting to read.
Warren