Good enough....

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
1

Was looking through the plethora of Catalogs that arived this time of year…

I’m beginning to wonder how good is good enough.

I’ve nothing against folks who make and sell expensive equipment, from rods to fly tying hooks. Nor do I have any problems with those who buy them.

But are we getting close to the point where good enough is good enough?

I was catching fish when the ‘cutting dege’ of rod technology was fiberglass…I have a few friends who remember both cane AND steel rods…While I understand that todays modern graphite fly rods are wonders of engineering, is it worth it to pay the price for what has become, if we are honest with ourselves, a very small increment of ‘improvement’. Just how good is ‘good enough’?

Would it be possible for the rod manufacturers to stop trying to make ‘new and improved’ and maybe go to ‘more efficient and thus less expensive’? Don’t know, just wondering…seems if they made the exact same rod for longer than just a couple of years, they could make them less expensively (economy of scale applies here somewhat)…if they are as good as the advertising claims they are, why improve them anymore? I always wonder if the rod makers are spending more time reacting to the advertisements of their competition and not to their custstomers.

The thread on hooks was interesting. I applaud Mustad for ‘updating’ their product line, but I still wonder, how good is good enough? Are the new hooks really any ‘better’, or do they just have more modern features? I’ve never actually ‘lost’ a fish because of hook ‘failure’. I understand the chemically sharpening thing, but I remember when every ‘good’ fisherman was a master of sharpening hooks. Used to be something you had to ‘learn’ before you were considered a competant angler. Another skill lost to technology…good or bad, I’m just not sure. I get ‘why’ microbarbs are supposedly ‘better’…but it’s just a fish hook. Does it need to be ‘better’ or was it already ‘good enough’? If you miss a fish, or one gets away, what’s the big deal. It’s just a fish, and you are probably letting it go anyway. Will any of us go hungry if the fish gets away? (spare me the ‘fish of a lifetime’ stuff, I’m wearing boots, but they aren’t hip boots…EVERY fish is the fish of a lifetime, or should be).

Tippet material has come almost as far, maybe farther, than rod technology. Todays tippet material is thinner, stronger, and comes in several levels of ‘limpness’ depending on what you want the stuff to do. The folks who fly fished a generation or two ago used the same ‘X’ system to define tippet diameter as we use today (something is wrong with that, I think), but ‘their’ 5X used to break at around 2 pounds…now it’s 4 pounds or sometimes 5. That’s a HUGE increase. Flourocarbon is touted as ‘invisible’ because it blends into the water due to having nearly the same refractive index. AND, some of it is stronger than monofilament tippet. Great, we can use heavier, stronger, tippet now…But wait, they sell 6X flourocarbon…if the fish can’t even SEE it, why would you need something so fine? I know some folks will say that you will catch more fish with 6X flouro than 5X flouro in very clear waters with spooky, pressured fish. If they can’t ‘see’ the line, you should be able to use 10 pound test…invisible is invisible…

Now they have also imporved monofilament and flourocarbon ‘fishing lines’ too. The stuff that conventional tackle anglers use. Some of us even use this stuff ,especially the flourocarbon ‘line’, as tippet when we are fly fishing. But, if you ask many fly fishermen, they will quickly point out that the ‘real’ tippet material is superior to the ‘regular’ line (it’s probably true). More consistent, thinner for a given breaking strength, etc… But, how good is good enough? 110 yards of plain vanilla Berkely ‘Vanish’ flourocarbon line runs around $5. 30 yards of a a good quality flourocarbon tippet material runs around $10-$15. Thinner, stronger, yes. But the fish can’t see either one of them. Is the regular ‘line’ good enough to fish with? What’s the ‘down side’? How good is good enough?

I understand that some folks want to have and use the very best they can get. Quality in tools and gear is important. But expensive or new just for the sake of being expensive or new is something altogether different.

This is, after all, just fishing. How good is good enough?

Buddy

2

30 years ago!

bobbyg

3

I think that if the manufacturers didn’t come out with “New & Improved” products, they wouldn’t be able to keep up the inflationary costs of doing business. Why, for crying out loud, did the Sage XP ever go away? Probably because all the XP’s grandchildren are a bit better, but they are more expensive to produce and they garner just that much more profit. I loved it when I cast the Sage Z-Axis, but how much better was the Z-Axis than the XP? I don’t think it was $275 better. But the cost of producing it may have been. I don’t mean to beat on Sage. Good grief, they are really great fish sticks. But I think the problem is across the board for all the manufacturers.
BTW, my go to favorite rod is an old Fenwick, 7 1/2 foot, 5 weight fiberglass rod.
For What I’ts Worth,

4

Great questions / thoughts! I have had some of the same questions running through my mind. Perhaps there’s a need for a “simplicity” movement in the fly fishing community.

5

are in business to make money. A particular rod design is scheduled to be a viable product for about 4 - 5 years. At the end of the time sales drop off substantially…and gosh, the manufacturers already have a new rod line ready to go. Most of the folks out there designing and building rods as a business are still in business because they have figured out how to function in the market. Sometimes a rod company will bring back a popular rod model, such as St. Croix with the re-do of the Imperial. It is called business.

6

I suspect… if corrected for inflation…that for the same dollars we paid for what was “good enough” years ago…we can at this time get a better product.

Did I say that correctly???:confused:

7

i have that same rod lotech! it was my first fly rod. i do love the new rods though and i do buy another one every year. i guess its my vice!

8

Everyone is discussing the price and production of rods. The real discussion should be; when is enough, enough. The answer in NEVER! Americans are people of excesses. We take everything to the Nth degree. And then when we have sold it as much as feaseable we think we need a newer/better item …whatever, rod, reel, skis, bikes, hiking shoes, poles, guns, bows, etc. Buddy has the question right. When is enough, enough? I think the answer lies in common sense and skills. And being disciplined enough to say “what I have now is enough”. And just learn to enjoy the activity! Ron G.

9

I don’t really feel I have a dog in this discussion…I’m willing to be a devil’s advocate for all sides…so in that spirit I will say this…

You mentioned ski’s…IMHO that’s a perfect example when enough is not enough…the ski’s/bindings in my skiing days don’t compare to the stuff now…maybe we should leave safety out of the discussion.

10

Agreed! Ron G.

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My old slide rule was good enough. But I like this better.

Bob

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I had this discussion on a trip recently. Is the current high end stuff any better at catching fish? If a car made now is faster, cleaner, more efficient, more comfortable by a long margin than one made 50 years ago… then is a modern fly rod/line etc that much different really? A little lighter and more efficient, but hey, if you can catch fish then you won’t starve if you only had a 'boo rod and a silk line yeah? Jump in a 1950 car and you maybe aren’t going across 4 states too fast. In comparison, take six practice casts on that 'boo and you will get as many fish as anybody else.

We wondered on our trip, as we all had #6 weights, that if we all blindfolded ourselves and cast all the rods could we identify which brands we had? (We had a wide range from el cheapo to costly precision sticks.) What if we juggled the lines too?

We all decided the results would be too embarrassing!

What will technology come up with next? I for one think I have progressed far enough already. I might be able to cast further and for longer but I still get fish within a couple of rod lengths!

13

The rod companies will never be satisfied with a great rod because if they don’t develop better rods every few years everybody has the best there is and there is no reason to buy another because they have the best. Rod company is therefore out of business because no one needs another rod.

knucks

14

Exactly!

And so too must the rod company expand and grow until it ruptures, goes bust: then another will start in the void it left.

15

I didn’t mean to single out the rod making industry, but they are certainly a part of my thoughts on this.

I keep hearing that rod companies ‘have to’ do things the way they do.

First of all, no, they do not have to do it this way. They make decisions about how they want to conduct business. There are several ways to do this, and it’s just as much our right to critisize them when we think they are wrong as it their right to do business how they see fit.

I hear that if they don’t make ‘new and improved’ rods they won’t have any business.

Does that even sound SANE to anyone? What it says is that they are trying to resell to the same people over and over by making them think that the rod they bought last year is somehow less of a fishing tool than the ‘new and improved’ rod the company is marketing this year. You know that your ‘curent’ rod is only a year or two old and still casts and fishes well, so they have to really lay on the hype to get you to think that the newer one is better enough for you to part with your cash. They pay spokespeople and provides sponsorships so that the ‘names’ you all listen to will speak highly of the ‘new’ rods and help get you to buy them.

Is it even possible that they may be wrong in this approach? That this huge amount of money spent in this fashion could be better used? Are there other ways to build market share without competing in a ‘fishing rod arms race’ waged with lots of advertising dollars and little of real substance (I’m sorry, but 1/100 of a gram in weight savings, a different color plating on the hardware, and a change in the fancy wood in the reel seat are NOT substantial improvements to me)?

If you have a washing machine, and it works, do you go out and buy a new one just because they changed the shape of the knobs? No. Even if it will wash the clothes a bit faster, or use a bit less water, or even use less power to run, you aren’t likely to buy a new one every year. If it still works, you keep it. Eventually it will begin to wear out. How long you keep it before you replace it depends on you, but eventually you buy another one. THEN, if you got a good deal and were happy with the machine, you may purchase the same brand. Works like that with a lot of products.

The fly rod market seems to think they are selling cars. They aren’t. The growth potential here isn’t in ‘replacement’ purchases, but in rod arsenal expansion and new customer entries into the market.

They are spending millions of dollars every year trying to sell the same person another 6 weight (or whichever weight you prefer) fly rod.

Why? I have several of those. My next door neighbor has none, though, and he makes good money and needs a hobby…

You have the opportunity for a continually expanding market. New people are born every day. Get them to take up the sport, and you have more customers. Instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions even, on research and developement on FISHING RODS, you could channel a large portion of those dollars into growing the customer base so that you sell more rods. Look at the ‘true’ growth portions of our economy. All of them work on expanding the customer base, not on repeated sales of the same product to the same individuals.

You don’t have to grow a business by playing with the minds of your existing customers.

You can grow a business by building customer loyalty to ‘keep’ your existing customers (which gives you word of mouth for getting NEW customers). You can do this by providing a decent product for a reasonable price and then standing behind it. You can do this by expanding your customer base by getting more people involved in the activity that requires your product.

Satisfied customers, word of mouth, expanded customer base. Works every time it’s tried.

That’s my opinion of the major fly rod makers.

Just one other thought, though. Anyone know a cane rod maker that makes a good cane rod? Bet he or she is REALLY busy making the rods and spends very little time developing new technology…odd that a rod so ‘outdated’ and labor intensive could still sell so well…but the good ones do…more and more people every year are buying cane. I wonder why?

Buddy

p.s; What’s wrong with being dressed as a pirate selling fish to tourists in tee shirts?

16

Yeah Buddy I agree with you to a point, except I don’t think we are really bagging the rod manufacturers for what they are doing are we? They are just a business doing business the way businesses are run these days.

It’s more about the attitude of fishers as far as I can see.

How many times do you hear somebody say, “Nar, this ol’ stick will do me fine!” Not often, well not around here anyway.

The “new model” will always cast further and get me more fish. Won’t it?

17

In any endeavor, there is always a desire to own the very best equipment. It is not as much that it will make you better, it is only knowing that it will not limit you. Golf, skiing, tennis, bicycling, running, motorcycles, cars, it doesn’t really matter what. A new graphite fishing rod will probably not help you catch more fish if you are fishing small streams and you could actually do as well with a cane pole and black line. It might help you if you are casting for snook out of a flats boat and you need to cast a little further to keep from spooking the fish with the boat but again, it won’t help unless your technique is good.

It was deficiencies in cane poles that got us to graphite. It was deficiencies in waxed silk that got us to plastics. It was deficiencies in waxed cotton that got us to Gore-Tex. It was deficiencies in bias ply tires that got us to radials. And so on. Equipment will always get better and some will always want the best.

But that doesn’t mean it is good for everyone. Many people like tradition and consider it good enough - or even better than new technology. As I said in the bamboo article - there is a lot of room on the stream, room for all, and no right or wrong in this argument (discussion).

Godspeed and good fishing,

Bob

18

Consumers have a say in the market. They do so by “voting” with their dollars. Consumers must be voting for the increases or the manufacturers would go out of business pure and simple.

I you don’t like the cost of the expensive gear don’t buy it, “vote no”. Buy cheaper models or even better yet buy used. If enough people start doing this then cheaper product lines will be developed or the companies won’t have enough money coming in to stay in business.

If there simply is a big enough “good enough” market out there and there is no one filling that demand then there is an opportunity to fill it. Anybody want to start a low cost rod company???

I personally don’t like the new stuff coming out, so I just simply won’t buy it. I find what is good enough, ususally someone else’s out of date refuse and spend my money on that

19

There is a group of people who have to have the latest and greatest, no matter if it is new or great. These people are the bread and butter of the marketing guru.

I love these people they pay to product test the things I buy.

I am about two to five years behind the time, I don’t buy trends and when the second or third generation of product is out I can buy a mostly bug free improved version for a third or less the cost of what the people who have to have the latest did. Or buy it used from someone who is off on the next trend.

Buddy thanks for starting this post it reminds me to go looking for another medalist and check the local pawn shop for another Glass Rod. Someone will be selling them to buy the latest and greatest, and that is good for me.

Eric

20

Buddy, I don’t know either…never have figured that one out…and I’m also getting tired of hearing it.:confused::stuck_out_tongue: