Can someone give me a description of how the following tapers are? Or a place where it will describe how the taper casts? So basically are they slow, moderate, only good for really short, a awesome all around rod, etc etc
constable wisp (6ft 2/2 3wt)
winston 6ft 3 wt
thomas and thomas caenis 7.6 2/2 3 wt
ph young midge 6 ft 3 2/2 4 wt
pe thomas special 6.6 2/2 4 wt
dickerson 7012 7 ft 2/2 4 wt
payne 97 7 ft 2/2 4wt
payne 98 7 ft 2/2 4wt
payne 100 7.6 2/2 4wt
leonard 804 8 ft 2/2 4 wt
ph young driggs river 7.2 2/2 5wt
payne 101 7.4 2/2 5wt
dickerson 7613 7.6 2/2 5wt
hardy marvel 7.6 3/2 4 wt
fe thomas 7.6 3/2 4wt
heddon #125 8ft 3/2 5wt
phillipson pacemaker 8ft 3/2 6wt
heddon 50 8.6 3/2 6wt
leonard 4099 8.6 3/2 8/9wt
how is a payne 97 swelled butt (it has been naughty and just been spanked?) different than non swelled butt.
I do not know if I am an expert but perhaps I can help a bit.
To establish some common ground on which to make comparisons it is best
to plot a graph of each taper.
One needs to find the Rise of a taper. The change in thickness of the rod per
100” of length. This is calculated using the reasonably straight middle section
of the taper from station 10 to station 60 and then extrapolated for 100”.
Lets use the PY 7’2” 2 pc, Driggs River 5 wt taper for an example.
The 10” station is 0.108 and the 60” station is 0.250.
.0250 – 0.108 = 0.142 x 2 = 0.284 this falls into the Fast range. ( see below graph)
The reason I have used the above taper is because I am presently making for myself
one of them in a Quad. So I have had to do a lot of math in my quest to build one.
I have one in a hex that I made myself several years ago and I would say it is a Fast
action rod.
Rise in inches Rod Action
Per 100 inches of length
Up to 0.239 Extra slow
0.240 - 0.260 Slow
0.261 - 0.280 Medium
0.281 - 0.300 Fast
0.301 and up Extra fast
I know this does not provide you with an answer to your question but you can see
one would need to have all the tapers and do the math.
I might suggest obtaining Ray Gould’s book, Cane Rod Tips & Tapers. Frank Amato.
In this book are tons of info about tapers and does have almost all the tapers in your quest.
I feel there is more to it but is a place for you to start.
If you have a specific rod you want checked out I would think I may have the Taper info
On it and would be happy to help you out.
509-999-7472 or denny@conranch.com
WOW! That is quite a list. If you ever find a person who has cast all these rods please let me know. I am certainly no expert and wouldn’t even begin to try to compare these rods myself. If you are new to bamboo and just trying to figure out what kind of rod you want then the best advice I can give you is to get your hands on as many different bamboo rods as you can and cast them. You will quickly get a feel for what you like and what works for you. Then you can compare that to other similar rods. Finding a bamboo rod that suits you is a very personal thing. If you are further along and kind of know the basics already and want to delve into the details then this link will keep you busy for days. Lots of discussion of many of the tapers in your list.
The first rod I made was a Payne 100 and I like it very much. Smooth and accurate, medium action.
The swelled butt question is a bit easier. Basically a swelled butt kills the action of the rod where the swell begins. It will behave somewhat like a shorter rod of the same taper, feeling a bit faster. The other theory is that the one with the swelled butt is a female, the other a male.
Why the desire for a “fast” tip? Fast tipped rods are the result of marketing hype from the plastic rod manufacturing folks. There is not much you can do with a plastic rod that I can’t do with a bamboo rod. Just keep in mind, at one time all rods were bamboo. Everything from the little Leonard Baby Catskill to 130 lb. big game rods. Fiberglass and graphite become popular because they were cheaper to mass produce. You might be surprised how nice bamboo can bee if you would get out to a gathering somewhere and cast some of the good rods that are available. If you ever get into my neck of the woods, stop by and cast a few nice rods. I have a range from 3 wt. small stream rods up to the mighty 10’ 6" two-handed “man-rods” for salmon and steelhead. You would be welcome to cast them all.
salt flytyer,
The rods listed in the original post are all fine casting rods as well as fine fishing rods. I have cast about half of them at one time or another and like them all. I am partal to the Paynes and Dickersons.
All of this from an old fishbum that likes bambo rods.
One minor quibble; it has always been my understanding that fiberglass replaced bamboo because of the embargo against anything coming oit of china after WW II: therefore, it was no longer available. To stay in business, the rodbuilders were ‘forced’ to turn to something else. Fiberglass was it. The original fiberglass rods were solid and the glass fibers, which you could actually see individually in some rods, were aligned parallel to one another and ran the length of the rod. I still have a solid fiberglass casting rod that my sister gave me for my birthday in about 1950. My first fly rod, which I also still have, is a first generation hollow glass rod that I bought in 1952.
The embargo was indeed a contributing factor. When talk of an embargo began cane importers purchased cane buy the boxcar full. All of the pre-embargo cane has not been used up yet. I knew of a stash of 200 culms of pre-embargo cane 10 years ago. Leonard did not go out of business because they had no cane, they did not pay their federal excise tax. Whene some of the other rod making companies went out of business huge stocks of cane was burned. The glass rods were cheap to make and could be sold at a much lower cost to the rod buying public. early glass rod tapers were even designed to mimic the cane rods of the day.
Now that cane is again available there has been a resurgance of interest in cane rods. Up to about a 6 weight, cane is superior to graphite for use in fly rods. My not so humble opinion of course.
I’ll give you my opinion. I think all fly rods are designed with one thought, and that is to eliminate the boink, boink, wobble wobble of the tip after the power stroke. To provide a nice smooth loop going out there to fight the wind and stay right on target where the fly caster intended the fly to go. They call it damping.Some wood rods and fiberglass rods of the past didn’t do a very good job of this. They are and should be dust collectors.
Along came the graphite rod and wow,to the objection of the old time pundants my conclusion after casting and fishing with one was irreversible. I was and am a graphite convert since 1974. I bought the Orvis 8 ft. Trout rod. It had a ceramic tip top guide which was nixed by the pundants. I disagreed with that decision.
I own three cane rods and no fiberglass. An Orvis 6 1/2 which cast very well, but is to fragile for my normal fishing. An Orvis 8 1/2 for an HDH line which was a whimp until I gave it a 4 wt. and the life came out of it. I gave my brother an 9 ft. Phillipson Pacemaker which was a dream rod for distance casting and fishing big streamers. It was matched with an HCH or 7 wt. line. He hangs it on the wall.
My personal favorite is a graphite JK Fisher I built in 1978. It’s a 906-2 and I won’t give it up for nuttin’. I recently purchased a bunch of g-rods for a discount price and the juries still out, but I’m onto a 7 1/2 ft. for a 4 wt. that’s not going to collect much dust from that purchase.
Bamboo is a good rod material but it has no advantage over the modern graphite rod. The Phillipson used to wear me out at pretty close to a pound fishing weight, and that was in my younger days.
Have an open mind with regard to all of the past, present, and future rod materials. You may be surprised one day like I was with a rod you won’t give away for nuttin’.
