I am very reluctant to submit this post because I’m afraid the subject will be hijacked by suggesting commercially available materials. I’ll have to wait and see.
My basic question is about anyone’s actual experience in using basic water repellants as fly floatants.
I have tried concentrated Rain-X that is usd to make water bead up on car windshields, WD-40 that is used to help make car wiring water resistant, pure silicone oil or plain wax, as used in preserving fruit preserves, diluted with naptha and even Chapstick lip balm that prevents water from evaporating.
Has anyone else tried these, or any other, non-standard dry fly treatments? What were your conclusions?
Ray
I have used the Ray Bergman formula…parafin dissolved in naphtha and like it as long as I am using it it warm weather. I have also tried a silicone water repellent spray called Camp Dry with mixed results.
Just mt 2% of a dollar, nothing more
Brad
Have heard of folks using Thompson’s water sealer with good effect – pre-treatment of course, not on stream. Like so many of these DIY solutions, for the amounts I use a year, it has always been better to just use an off-the-shelf solution. Any time fiddling with wax, naptha, and lip balm is time better spent either tying more flies or fishing. I have wanted to try the old Mucilin and lighter fluid solution, but that is more to satisfy my curiousity than trying to build a better mousetrap.
Ray,
It’s a question that draws a wide variety of solutions, potions, and other perfectly formulated products and elixirs that folks are passionate supporters of. My limited experience leads me to believe this particular subject is like a discussion amongst fellow alchemist regarding the exact nature and composition of the “philosophers stone”. Again, my feeling is there are a lot of good products out there, both home brewed and off-the-self, that work well in most situations and a few that don’t seem to work in any.
I’m currently fixated with using Frogs Fannie (or it’s base component, fumed silica). I also like GINK at times. I’ve tried Top Ride, Aquel, watershed, silicone dips, campdry, and a host of others in search of perfection. My conclusion is the absolute perfect floatant, one that works in all cases, on occasion, and under all circumstances is still out there to be found. It’s just not yet with in my grasp. Kind of like making the perfect cast, every time, all day long!
I’m sure you’ll get a full range of opinions and thoughts on this topic. It generally generates a fair amount of interest and discussion. Lots of folks in a variety of camps on this one. My best advice is experiment and enjoy the ride, along with the rest of us, who are tying to turn lead into gold!
I’ve been using Alboline Makeup remover for a few years & I think it’s as good as any commercial fly floatant. Not that it matters but it’s about $11.00 in Walgreens, I also use it on my furled leaders & it’ll float them all day.
Albolene…don’t let the price scare you …that’s a lifetime supply…you can also dissolve it and use it after cleaning a slimed fly.
Three time’s a charm: Albolene.
Al Troth used it.
Al mentioned and even rcommended (in a recently found 3 hour 1991 fly tying seminar) cutting Albolene with lighter fluid, if necessary.
Al also points out (in his opinion) that’s what Gink is: Albolene. No more. No less.
To be fair, in the last few years before his death, George Gehrke (often intemperately) participated in various
usenet news groups, where he frequently and vehemently denied Gink was Albolene.
Al, in this case, is they guy i have the most faith in.
All around, hydrophobic fumed silica (generic Frog’s Fanny) is the best. Gink, Aquel, Albolene, etc cannot be used effectively with CDC or Hare’s Foot patterns, as they mat down the fibers and kill the inherent floatation qualities. Look around on the internet, and you’ll find Hydrophobic (not hydrophyllic) Fumed Silica is available for about 25 bucks a gallon, which for most of us would be a lifetime supply. Whatever you do, don’t use the Naphta/parafin solutions. The oil film it leaves on the water, makes the fly look like a miniature outboard motor with a leaky fuel tank.
Ducksterman,
How do you dissolve the Albolene?
Bill
I use lighter fluid…there are other solvents that I don’t recall now…the lighter fluid evaporates after dunking the fly and leaves a thin coating of albolene.
Hi Ray,
A friend, and long time fly fisherman asked me to help him dissolve some paraffin wax (same kind you buy at the grocery store for topping home canned jelly), in an organic solvent to make his own fly floatant. I did some testing for him, and found that toluene worked better at dissolving the paraffin than any other solvent. (That toluene works better than most other solvents is not a surprise, and it is what I had expected.) We made some of the floatant with the toluene and wax, and he was quite happy with it. It was a type of floatant of the type he had learned to use many years ago, and it was what he liked.
The downside, is that toluene can attack some types of synthetic tying materials. Other solvents are less agressive toward synthetics, but they are also less effective at dissolving wax, so it is a compromise no matter which solvent you use.
At any rate my friend does like his home made floatant.
Regards,
Gandolf
I use the paraffin/naptha mixture but I dissolved the wax in coleman fuel since I had it around and the main component is naptha anyways. l use this at the bench and muscilin while on the water. Works good for me. I tried the dissolved wax concoction on the water and found the same oil slick thing but if you let it dry before using it, the wax seals the fly up pretty good with no slick. I was thinking of trying albolene to replace the muscilin, but I just haven’t gotten around to it.
Secret Potion works well; I found it @ Lowe’s:
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/readerscast/readerscast20091012_tom_Deschaine.php
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The “three sisters” among the organic solvents that work quite well for dissolving paraffin are: Benzene (no longer readily available); Toluene (Toluol); and, Xylene (Xylol). They have been listed in order, first to last, of chemical reactivity. From a safety/hazard perspective, Xylene is the one of choice as it is the least volatile and least flammable of the three, and is less harmful than the others. The differences between the ability of these three solvents to dissolve paraffin is so small that only sophisticated chemical tests can detect it.
The older authors used white gas to dissolve the paraffin wax, as it used to be readily available; every ‘service’ station had it and it was dirt cheap. I have no idea how many gallons I bought for my dad as a boy at $0.10 per gallon! (For the younger members, white gas is ‘pure’ gasoline; no additives of any kind.) Naphtha and lantern fuel are the closest things to white gas available today. If you let the flies treated with this concoction dry overnight, there will be no miniature ‘oil spill’, as jklett points out. I use the naphtha/paraffin mix to waterproof my thread furled leaders to this day. I hang them to dry overnight and do not get the ‘sheen’ from them associated with oil spills.
Scotch Guard, the ‘original’ formula, worked quite well, but I have no knowledge of how well the ‘new’ formula, dictated by the ever-watchful EPA, has done to it’s value as a dry fly floatant, as I have a ‘lifetime’s’ supply of the original. Anyone out there who can comment on the ‘new’ formula Scotch Guard?
Most, if not all, line manufacturers discourage the use of ARMORALL on their lines of today, as the coating is no longer simply PVC, and it may, in fact, according to them, damage the coating. I can still see the video segment that I saw back in the early’70’s of Lefty Kreh demonstrating how to apply ARMORALL to his fly lines, and commenting to the effect that if it was good enough to coat the vinyl dash in his automobile with, it ought to be good enough to apply to the vinyl coating on his fly lines. Wonder if he still advocates this today?
aged_sage
I never really understood the concern with the oil slick on ititial wetting, like you get with Gink? It’s not hazardous…and it’s only when it first gets wet. Albolene or Gink is what I stick with.
Don’t any of you guys use CDC or Hare’s Foot dries? If you do, Albolene, Gink. Aquel, etc, are worse than useless. Just wondering if you use CDC, and if not, why not?
On CDC flies, after I catch a fish I just put the fly in a small vial of 90% alcohol I carry in my vest & just shake it up too clean it. A few false casts & it’s as good as new most of the time. If it still sinks I’ll re- alcohol dip it & use some brand of desiccant & then fish it. I’ve collected those little dessicant packages you get with some purchased items & pulverized the beads, put them in a vial & when I want to dry a fly I put it in the vial & shake it up. As for the alboline I dont thin it. I keep it in a small squeeze bottle & when I want to use it I just squeeze some out on my fingers & rub it into the fly… I forgot to mention that that $11.00 bottle of Alboline will last you & your friends a few seasons…
Been using Vick’s Lip Therapy for a while and it works just as good as any flotant you can buy. I came upon this by accident when I got some on a fly after putting some on my lips, been using it ever since.
For CDC flies, Frog’s Fanny, and accept no substitutes. I’ve done that, and they were unusable. Other than that, I use Gink on hackled flies. I still miss the environmentally unsound floatant I used as a kid. You dipped your fly in it. It left an oil slick on the water, and was untimately banned I believe. But man could it float a fly.
Eric
Hi Eric,
The stuff you talked about sounds a lot like the floatant my friend had me work on. He like you described it just as you did, you dunk the fly in it and then fish, with maybe some false casting to dry it. He is an engineer that has worked for years around the organic chemical industry for years.
He said it was just paraffin wax, that you buy at the grocery store for sealing jelly jars, dissolved in a hydrocarbon solvent. Aromatic solvents like toluene or the xylenes (ortho-xylene, meta-xylene, or para-xylene, or a mixture just labelled “xylenes”) will all work well. A solvent like paint thinner will work, but not as well, as it will not dissolve as much of the wax as will the toluene.
The floatant you probably used likely had a solvent like carbon tetrachloride or trichloroethylene as the solvent to dissolve the wax, those are now banned for most practical purposes. They can still be had, but are expensive, and are on the way out.
If you want to try some, put a little paraffin wax in some paint thinner. Not much will dissolve, but it is possible that enough will for you to give it a try. If you have some toluene that will work better, but will be more agressive toward any synthetic fly tying material.
Regards,
Gandolf