Dry or Wet fly- Which came first?

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
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Which Came First: Wet or Dry Fly?

This kind of topic usually stirs some good discussions.

I happened to be looking through the book, Favorite Flies and Their Histories, by M.O. Marbury and this piqued my interest. Between pages 29 and 31, she talks about and quotes a translation from Aelian?s, De Animalium Natura. In part it reads,

?These fish feed on a fly which is peculiar to the country and which hovers over the river?The natives call it Hippourus. As these flies seek their food over the river, they do not escape the observation of the fish swimming below. When, then, a fish observes a fly hovering above, it swims quietly up, fearing to agitate the water lest it should scare away its prey; then, coming up by its own shadow, it opens its jaws and gulps down the fly ?; having done this ,it withdraws under the rippling water.? ?? but they(the fishermen) have planned a snare for the fish, and get the better of them by their fishermen?s craft. They fasten red wool round a hook, and fit on to the wool two feathers which grew under a cock?s wattles, and which in color are like wax. Their rod is six feet long, and the line is of the same length. Then they throw their snare, and the fish, attracted and maddened by the color, comes up, thinking to get a dainty mouthful; when, however, it opens its jaws, it is caught by the hook and enjoys a bitter repast, a captive.?

Now, to me, this sounds like these fish were taking the Hippourus fly off of the surface. In all probability, the antique imitations would sink fairly quickly because of the hook weight and material. Regardless, it sounds like it was the intent of the ancient Macedonian fishermen to fish their flies on the surface, dap them, or even hover them above the surface of the water. So, I conclude that the first flies used, in recorded history, were Dry Flies.

Your thoughts?

Allan

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I believe that the first lure/fly was a wet type fished with a hand line and later came the rod. With the use of the rod a dapping method the dry or surface fishing.
Ghost

time is like a river running though the world, if you dont take a moment to sit and watch it go by we loose so much. GrayGhost

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JC,

Vince who? (-;

Allan

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Yes are’nt those Penciltucky guys quite ingenious !

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Allan-

My thought is that what the “natives” called Hipporous may have been Odonata (damselflies and dragonfiies). I say that because of their being described as hovering, and because of the imitation being red in color.

Taxon
[url=http://FlyfishingEntomology.com:e7f0d]FlyfishingEntomology.com[/url:e7f0d]

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Hi Allan,

Just tickles my funny bone to see that
the first fly rods were about 6’ in length.
Not at all unlike what I fish today.G
Warm regards, Jim

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Didn’t the NYMPH come first? Then hatch into the Wetfly and then into the Dryfly? I thought that is how old mother nature worked??? Ron out here were it is 50 degree’s YES!

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This kind of sounds like “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?”. I am thinking that it was wet fly first. Perhaps I am wrong here but I always thought of the nymph as a type of wet fly. Just my wacky 2 cents worth.

Eric “nighthawk”

American veteran and proud of it!

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From the Chicken that crossed the road of course. Ron

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Taxon…
Probably not. The literature also claims that the flies are too delicate to use as bait, disintigrating into nothingness upon touching.

The question I’d like to see answered is, were the feathers wound as hackles or fastened as a wing. If fastened as a wing the fly would very soon become a streamer. I have fished with a stick of about 6 ft and a line and leader combination of about 6 to 8 ft. The most effective way of fishing this combination IMHO was by dapping while staying well hidden.

For those who havn’t checked the geography, the Macadonia Aelian is writing about is part of Greece and the river lies entirely within it’s border.

Ol’ Bill

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My bet would be the Dry came first.

Unless our forebears had scuba gear, it seems to me unlikely that they could figure out that trout were taking nymphs.

That trout were taking flies on the surface would be easy to see. Attempts at imitation would naturally ensue.

-Steven

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Maybe I’m not thinking clearly yet, but doesn’t Hippourus sound suspiciously like the greek root hippos? That would make the first fly a horsefly, wouldn’t it? By definition only perhaps.

Lux

If you can’t do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.

[This message has been edited by fishlux (edited 28 December 2005).]

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I’m still trying to figure out if the chicken came before the egg or vice versa! Cuzz if it was the former then where did the rest of the chickens come from for hackle after the former was eaten and if it was the latter where did all the eggs come from for omelets after the latter was eaten. Or was the first chicken raiser a chicken plucker first for cul de canard’s and later an advocate of chicken cacciatorre?

Big Questions!

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Analogbob,
Your questions deserve answers! IMHO, doing the research required may pay gigantic dividends someday. Why don’t we try for a government grant to look into this? Sounds like something the gumment would finance in the blink of an eye!

Ol’ Bill

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Well the story says the fly was above the water . Not on the water . Suppose they dangled their “trap” Above the water for the fish to grab . It would then be an ultra dry fly having never even reached the surface before being ingested by the fish .

But I think the first fly was a wet , recipe as follows

Make hook from sharp bent thorn
Tie thong to thorn .
Wrap worm around thorn and secure with bright wool of a sheep .
Drop in water wherein lies a fish
When fish starts to eat worm , yank hard in the direction of shore .
When enough fish are on shore to feed tribe put excess fish back .
Make plenty more woolly thorns .
Trade extra thorns for warm furs .
Thong tied to long stick reaches out farther from shore wherein there are more fish .
Patent seceret idea to keep rest of tribe from doing same thing .
Sell Idea to Renzetti tribe in next valley over

I could be wrong , It seems unlikely , but I suppose it could happen.

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Well, for better, or worse, I have tied a version of Aelian’s Macedonean Hipporus. I took into account the materials, tools and lack of previous information on technique that would’ve been available at the time. By necesity, it is tied on a modern hook. I will try to find out what they used for hooks back then and, if possible, duplicate it. I did not use any tools in tying this fly. It was done completely by hand (that’ll make you really appreciate a good bobbin). I tied it with wings, rather than hackle because Aelian’s describes 2 feathers. To my mind, that would indicate wings (also the fact that it would seem a logical first step).

The species is in doubt. I have seen the fly described as a Hipporus Wasp elsewhere, but I can find no records of any such wasp, even going back as far as Galenius. Also, wasps are not noted for hovering over water, as Aelian describes them. The most likely suspect (in my opinion) is the Red Damsel-Fly (Pyrrhosmoa nympthula), which has always been indiginous and numerous to the area in question. There-fore, I tied the wings at a near 90 degree angle to the body, as I imagine a person would who was trying to imitate a damsel-fly in flight would’ve done, without the benefit of modern instructions.

I will post pictures as soon as I can figure out how to work a digital camera correctly.

Thanks again to everyone for all your help.

Semper Fi!