In the current edition of Mid Atlantic Fly Fishing Guide Lefty Kreh writes that lifting the line, even a foot of it, off the water will cause noise underwater that will put down fish. He recommends, therefore, retrieving line so that only the leader is lifted off the water.
This idea is new to me. Any thoughts?
Randy
I think it’s a valid point. We are always talking about fish having phd’s when it comes to fly patterns, but rarely do we talk about their education in sounds.
I think trout, especially heavily pressured trout associate sounds to danger. Be it walking along the water crunching gravel, lifting the fly line off the water, and even talking to a friend.
When fishing by myself I have caught as many as a dozen trout out of one small hole. When with a buddy, and we start cheering after the first couple of fish, the fishing usually dies down. It doesnt happen all the time that way, but enough to raise an eyebrow.
So yes, I would have to agree with Lefty.
These are just my opinions, I have zero proof to back any of it up.
… on the situation.
But generally, I would agree that ripping a fly line off the water will likely put down some, if not all, the fish in the immediate area. The softer the water, the more likely that will happen, the rougher the water, the less likely.
Regardless of the situation, I do take care to not make any more commotion with the fly line than is absolutely necessary, and consistently let it drift downstream as far as possible, including letting it swing in below my position, before starting to lift it. I’d rather have fewer casts over the course of the day, and probably increase the prospects of catching some fishies by taking a bit more time between casts.
I have seen people pick up a fly, ripping the line off the water, and cast back immediately to the same spot, or very close to it. That usually makes me cringe and laugh at the same time. Can’t say I have observed that often enough or closely enough to figure out if it makes a difference in the catching department for them, but I do think they are stacking the deck against themselves.
John
Depends on the fish.
Trout are as everything shy as is possible for fish to get.
Bass don’t care and are attracted to noise.
Large panfish don’t care enough to leave for more than a few seconds.
Redfish and speckled trout (sea trout) don’t care and are attracted to noise.
If the fish get put down, how long time does it take for them to become active feeders again?
Thorarinn
My question is how does one NOT lift the line off of the water? Even if I reel the line in, doesn’t the line “lift” off the water to get only the leader ON the water? Secondly, if the line you retrieved is at you feed in the water, it is “lifted” off of the water when you cast again.
It sounds like hyperbole to emphasize that some sounds can spook fish in some circumstances. I suggest going back to videos of Lefty Kreh actually fishing. I’ll give you 10 to 1 that most often he does not reel in all the line before casting again. It just wastes too much fishing time. He means to get the line away from the fish you are fishing to so you won’t spook them when you recast.
Does Lefty really lift all the line out of the water before recasting?
I’m betting that Lefty has it right and under actual fishing conditions adjusts his cast to prevent the spooking of fish. By the way this isn’t a new idea as I believe I first read it in the study materials for the Masters test with the FFF, as well as many other places and have known about it for years. Has a lot to do with the species, the pressure, the cast itself, whether or not the water is moving, and much, much more. A line curving off to the right or left of the casting line will tend to make more noise than a line that’s straightened out first. A long length of line will increase the ripping sound over a shorter length with all else equal.
In my bald ole noggin it would be very difficult to truly determine what sound attract wild fish in a stream and what sounds spook them. The B.A.S.S. folks or some of their acquaintances did a study years along about outboard motors, etc., they found the sound of the outboard props and exhaust actually attracted fish under some circumstances but the sound of the trolling motor spooked them. Some of bass fishermen’s favorite lures are very noisy, rattletraps are full of BB’s, buzzbaits churn the water, I still have one that is tuned for the blade to nick the wire and make additional noise, jitterbugs, they even add rattles to plastic worms.
Trout on smooth water are pretty finicky most the time. If I see a trout rising I will surely let the line float downstream past it before picking the line up again. Picking the line up is going to cause some vibration, which equals sound. The vibratin should typically be slight and die out before traveling very far. I would suspect the movement of the line would cause more fish to disappear than the sound. Drop your forceps in the bottom of an aluminum boat, that will spook fish about everytime.
I was much smarter back in my younger years. Thought I knew everything until one of my fishing buddies showed me a little trick for this situation. If you let the fly drift a little past where the fish rose, then pull back a little line with the rod tip and make a sharp little forward cast like you would in a roll cast, the whole fly line and fly will pop straight up out of the water with relatively little noise and you can execute a normal back cast with the line never touching the water. It’s cute, try it next time you have a chance. You will not spook fish that may be lying close.
Bob
Bob,
Depending on the angle you flip the rod, you can even bring the fly right back at you. It generates a wave down the line and lifts the fly into the air. See this trick Gary Borger showed me. PS this does spook the fish!
I saw that and tried it. Ain’t as easy as he makes it look!
Hint!!
Don’t cast over fish if you don’t want to spook them and comparing the the reaction of Bass vs Trout is not a good indication of the real world! Bass are predators and Trout are not ( which can be argued). A bass fisherman sould hesitate to tell a trout fisherman what to do. They are not on the same page! Lefty was casting to Bass, with a wet fly!
How long to become active feeders again?
Trout: will stay skittish for long enough to make you change locations. Only if there is a particular hatch of large prey (green drakes, etc.) will they resume quickly.
Bass: won’t hesitate to attack the next cast. I’ve had several occasions to put a loud popper on a bass’ head and missed the hookup with a loud exiting pop. Next cast the bass was still there, and now it’s angry.
Large Panfish: long enough to let smaller fish enter the area first and see if they get eaten, then immediately thereafter.
Redfish and Specks: redfish spook easier. If you spook one it may stay away for a while, but another in the same school may attack the next cast. I’ve had redfish spook on a false cast and leave the area, but the next trip had them attack every cast even after missed hookups and many false casts. i attribute most of this unpredictability to the presence of shrimp in the water. Specks are always ready to attack.
Other saltwater fish: permit and bonefish spook easily. Snook and tarpon, not so much.
I suspect that Lefty as well as others came up with this fishing ultra clear waters with spooky fish such as one encounters on the flats at times. No matter as it is situation and species dependant and suspect it can even be seasonal.
I want to make sure I understand what Lefty is saying. Is it that we need to strip in all the line up to the leader before lifting for a cast or else we will spook the fish we are casting to?
OR is it sometimes we need to do it? There is a huge difference between those two propositions.
Silver Creek,
I guess he means on smooth water that we need to strip all the line in and then make our back cast with only the leader on the water.
Thanks so much for all the great posts,
Randy
I do recall reading about the effects of ripping the fly line off the water eight or nine years ago by someone other than Lefty Kreh, and it was specifically about trout fishing. That is when / where my habit of letting the fly line drift well below the “target area” before picking it up for the next cast was formed.
It is my own thought, also, that mending can have a similar effect, and that it is best done with the least amount of commotion.
It still seems to me that the water you are on ( for trout fishing ) is the most significant part of the equation. Shallow, slow, clear water conditions are much less forgiving than deeper, faster, freestone conditions and on serious pocketwater situations much latitude can be taken in picking up and mending line.
John
Randy,
That’s my interpretation as well.
I bass fish in clear water.
If I’m fishing target topwater (throwing to spots near cover or over structure rather than over schooling fish), I always retrieve past where I expect the fish to be before picking up for another cast if I’m going to cast in or near the same place again. Smallies, and to a lesser extent largemouth, can be put down by too much comotion in these circumstances.
If you are fishing topwater over schooling fish, the more noise the better. I’ll make several casts and intentionally rip the bug through the water to get the fish’s attention.
With subsurface flies, I ALWAYS retrieve to the leader before recasting. Several reasons, but mostly bass can be followers and why miss an opportunity.
Bass in stained or muddy water are different. I seldom get to fish them anymore.
When I trout fish in clear lake waters I again retrieve all the way to the tippet. TRout follow more than bass do, and they tend to be spookier, so why take the chance.
In moving water, the fly line moves downstream. I just wait until it’s away from where I’m going to cast next before picking it up unless I’m fishing a streamer or wet fly. These I retrieve all the way in before casting. Don’t know if this keeps spooking to minimum, I just know it seems to work better that way.
Buddy
I am of the opinion that trout really are spooked by those sounds. I remember fishing for cutties up by the Idaho border with my bro and they would dart just from the sound of my feet swishing in the high grass.
As a warm water fisherman, I believe warm-water fish species are not. They seem to be as sensitive to sound as bricks are to other bricks. Actually, Largemouth especially like the sound of things hitting the water really hard, as long as they stay there long enough for them to wrap their mouths around them.