i dont think you will ever fund your retirement account tying flies 
LOL…Good one Normand…good one!
nope, but I do have a whole bunch of Winstons 
And a reminder for those of us who do tie commercially, the federal excise tax for the fourth quartet 2009 is due the end of this month. Just one of many things that has to be done if you manufacture fishing tackle or archery equipment.
fishbum
Tie for fishermen and not shops. It might be hard at first but I would think you would have a lot better chance at a profit. And you can supply patterns that might not be available in shops.
A website need not be expensieve at all, in fact practically free if you look around.
Get the very best pictures you can…
" Get the very best pictures you can"
I agree and have for the last ten years made a point of trying to do just that. Keep in mind one thing…the Macro lens is profoundly unforgiving. If nothing else, the macro photo will make you a better tier…real fast
Just to make it clear…
That 4,000 dozen that Bones talked about to get you $48K…that’s gross dollars, not money you get to keep as income.
That’ll be way less than $20K in income. You got to take taxes (excise, AND federal income, SSI-both sides since you are your own employer, whatever your state requires, etc.), materials, and packaging, insurances, plus all the other necessary business costs.
Now, using it as a second income to offset a high dollar job, maybe that would do some good. You won’t make money on the flies, but can write off a lot to lower the taxes on your primary income. Maybe sort of fund your hobby with a side benefit of lowering your tax liability.
I know guys who do similar things with other costly hobies like bass fishing or hunting.
Might work. Certainly worth a check with a tax guy if you find yourself in that situation.
Buddy
Ran across a blog for a Missoula guide yesterday. Thought you all might enjoy the first ( 12-29-09 “Winter Tying” ) entry.
http://classicjourneyoutfitters.com/montanaflyfishingblog/index.php?blog=1
John
Hobbies that become occupations…cease to be hobbies any longer. Hence the reason I gave up building flyrods…
If said hobby / occupation is not your primary source of income ( meaning you dont make the majority of your $$ thru it) you can declare a loss as long as said loss DOESNT eat into your primary income…so at best you are “even with the board” as far as taxes / hobby income goes.
And if I KNEW that I HAD TO tie 4000 doz flys to make $20-25K a year …Id have to be chained to a table with no firearms within reach!!!..:lol:
While looking through the Winter edition of " Fly Tyer" and without mentioning the company’s name, I found this current advertisement:
“All trout flies $.79, Saltwater flies $1.50
Fly assortments from $.60/ fly
Great selection- over 6000 styles of flies
Free shipping*Most items, min order applies
100% satisfaction”
Makes me wonder why anyone would even start to tie thier own flies, unless of course they are crazy like the people (including me) that visit the Fly Tying forums. :lol:
If you are looking for a bohemian lifestyle, tying is it. As long as you don’t need much money coming in, its great.
Get this book: ‘Production Fly Tying’ by A.K. Best
Very enlightening. He put his kids through college tying flies.
I read it and can tie much faster now. Which means you can charge less and still make a good per hour rate.
He recommends tying dozens of the same fly at a time, you’ll get better and faster as you get to know the pattern.
Lay out all your supplies before you start, as well as prepare them if necessary. It works.
Bill
thanks i will look into that book
…though nothing to do with fly tying, but i have to believe it might work.
Locate physical bulletin boards in your area, place your homemade business card on them (tacks are usually available free) and you might state something on your card like ‘Local Hand Tied Flies’. Of course you’ll have to either put your phone or email so ppl can place orders. Craig’s List might work also and of course the Bay…on either of those you could have good photos.
Do you have your matl. and hook sources all taken care of already?
Cheers,
MontanaMoose
Hi Group,
We’ve been watching this thread for a few days with interest. We’ll not try to redo the article we did for Fly Tyer magazine a couple years ago in this thread but will give a couple of additional thoughts about commercial tying.
The worse day of the year is April 15. On this day you pay the first quarter of your Federal Excise Taxes, your first quarter estimated federal and state estimated income taxes for the current year, first quarter for any state sales tax (and that includes state other than those you live in if you attend fly-fishing shows outside your home state) and any income tax you didn’t estimate correctly on your last years federal and state income taxes. If your bank account is looking pretty good in the middle of March, hold your breath because April 15 will take care of that.
Often fly shops turn to import flies because they can get them when they need them. You see, the people who work in the off-shore factories work winter and summer and many people who want to be commercial tiers are also fly fishers. When do fly shops need flies? During the fishing season which is usually summer. When do fly fishers who are commercial tiers want to tie flies? In the winter when they have time; they want to go fishing in the summer! Winter is the time when most fly shops are struggling just to keep the doors open OR they closethe doors all together and go guide in South America (or someplace with summer during our winter). It is definitely not the time they want to deal with flies comming in the front door or figuring out how to pay for them.
There are ways to be a commercial tier if that is really your goal but as already stated by several people in the group, it is a business and you need to be paying attention to business when customers need your product which can certainly cut into your fishing time. Take care & …
Tight Lines - Gretchen & Al Beatty
www.btsflyfishing.com
I met an elderly gentleman at the farmer’s market in Kalispell, MT who was selling flies. In each zip-lock bag he had an assortment that included a hopper, Adams, Blue Winged Olive, McGinty, Mickey Finn. The quality wasn’t all that great (the Adams had wings like jack-rabbit ears), no two flies looked alike, and they kinda got squished a bit in the bags, but he was having the time of his life, enjoyed talking to everyone who stopped by, explained where and when these flies would catch trout. I figure if I ever want to get into tying flies for sale, this would be the perfect business model. Still have that bag of flies, too.
Regards,
Scott
Think about the economics of it.
How much do you pay for a fly at a shop?
$1.50-$3.00?
If it were $1.50, the shop paid 75 cents for it. Can you make a fly for 75 cents and make $$?
How many can you make in an hour?10- 20-30? At 25 per hour, that’s $18.75 per hour…MINUS your cost for making them.
Can you make that many consistently for hours on end? 8 hours a day?
Pretty rough living.
I’d rather be a greeter at Walmart.
Let’s see,… if you were to crank out 2 dozen of these babies per year, that’s per year, you’d be lookin’ for a good accountant.
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/fishing/news/story?page=ff_fea_pro_Logan_Becher
Good luck!
Another way to do this…
Lots of fly fishermen own expensive fly rods. They’ll tell you things like it’s better quality, will last longer, pride of ownership, etc… Reels, basically the same thing. Even fly lines now, $100 per and folks out there are buying them because they belive they are worth it.
But every discussion on tying flies and selling them commercially devolves into ‘can you compete with $1 to $3 retail value flies?’. I’ve seen the videos of some of those folks who tie overseas for a living. Fast and efficient doesn’t even come close to how skilled these people are. If you think you can compete with them, fly per fly, good luck.
How about going the other way? Sell the higest quality flies, using high quality materials, tied carefully with the higest skill level. Not tied quickly, but lovingly tied with an eye to making everything just so. Custom flies tied specifically for a certain persons requirements. Flies tied for specific destinations and species.
And charge for them. With folks paying sometimes over several thousands of dollars a day to fish at an exotic destination, even ntot so exotics one these days, paying four to five dollars per fly to get the best available wouldn’t seem all that much of a stretch.
I know lots of fly fishermen who have very limited time slots for their fishing. Many are professionals with incredibly demanding jobs and lifestyles. They earn lots of money, but the downside is stress and not much leisure time. What time they do get is precious to them. When they do get to go, they want everything to be first class and are willing to pay for it. If there was a custom fly service out there where they could call and tell you where they were going, what they planned to fish for, and you could send them the proper flies, they’d certainly not balk at the price. Only downside is you’d better do the homework and send them the right stuff.
This could be done. You’d have to have the skills. You’d have to be willing to build it slowly. You’d have to develope contacts that could keep you up to date on the fishing where your clients are headed. And you’d have to work real hard.
There is always a place for high end. It’s the middle of the road where folks get run over.
Buddy
Two problems:
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These guys will go to lodges. Ever been to one? You bring your beautiful flies, but by the end of the day, the guides have you fishing the lodge’s flies. They all have their little internal flyshops, and they charge for their flies. I’m convinced that one of the guides’ jobs is to get their sports on the lodge’s flies. So the sport has double-paid.
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Plenty of operations already provide the geographical service. Greycliff, Westbank come to mind. Tell 'em where you’re going, they’ll send you flies that should match the prevailing hatches.