I had a “lesson” yesterday with a friend of my grandpas and he is a commercial tier and sells to a bunch of people. He said to go to our local sports shops and tell them i am a fly tier and would like to tie for them. The only shops we have are dunhams and mc sports and walmart. Does anyone tie for these shops.
here in holland (michigan) duhams is the only shop out of those three that has really any fly fishing stuff and they only sell fly assortments from cortland. i’m not sure that they even have someone tieing for them but i guess it wouldn’t hurt to ask.
A word of caution. If you tie commercially you are required to pay a 10% tax to the Feds. A friend of mine got into trouble and the shop he tied for had to pay the tax for him.
That’s a tough business these days. I remember Gary Borger of Targus speaking during a tying demo that he use to think he was pretty good at making flies. He was doing a tying demo at a fly fishing show. Then he brought up the women that work for him and tie one pattern in one size and thousands up thousands of them. By the time you buy at your small volume buying level and spend your time, you might as well walk into one of those stores and ask them if you can make a donation, open your wallet and give them cash and walk away and you will probably be ahead of the game. :lol:
After thinking about my thread I wanted to edit it to say that I don’t mean to discourage you, go for it, enjoy your time behind the vice. I think the economics of it might be a tough way to make a dollar. You might make more money asking “do you want fries with that?” or “Welcome to Wal-Mart” but you won’t have as much fun and your tying should really improve trying to tie hundreds of dozs.
this is something i’mworking on breaking into myself and its not easy. the few shopes i have talked to wont pay more then 1.50 a fly and some of them cost more in meterals to make. and webhosting is not cheep. either
There are several ways to go in tying flies that you want to receive some kind of payment for.
First, as Narco dog pointed out, there are laws involved with selling things for profit, some are specific to fishing related products, and others to your state and county regardless of the product. WE all know about the IRS, too.
Be sure to investigate and follow these rules. Doing so makes sure you both stay out of trouble and keeps the playing field level for all (if the other guy you may be competing with IS adhering to all the laws, and you aren’t, you are cheating him…don’t be surprised if he turns you in).
And, yes, it doesn’t matter how much you make, or how many flies you sell. You should still follow the rules.
Selling the flies in bulk for cash to a shop or catalog is one way to go. Hard to do unless you have some unique flies or are very fast. Easiest way I know to do this is to specialize in locally preferred flies for specific species or waters.
Trading flies to a shop for credit in the store. Lots of folks do this. It works well for the shop owner, and you can get stuff you want or need. Remember that you are still selling them, and need to adhere to the appropriate regulations. This is probably the easiest way to get some value for your flies.
Selling direct to fishermen. You can build a surprising amount of business if you don’t mind building it slowly through word of mouth. This supposes that your flies are well made and work in the waters your customers fish. Many tyers back into a small trade this way.
Remember that while there are requirements to running a business like this, there are also some benefits. Legitimate businesses can purchase supplies at reduced prices. Wholesale is just the upper end of that. These savings are always well below the retail price on things, and if you purchase in sufficient quantities, you an save 60 to 70 percent on many items. Obviously, doing this either ups your profits and/or reduces your prices.
It’s still a hard business to make profitable. Lots of overseas competition on what you’d call the standard patterns. Lots of big businesses with incredible buying power that you won’t be able to compete with as far as pricing goes.
Some of the hardest working people I know are professional fly tyers. If you really love it, though, you can make it work.
Good Luck!
Buddy
Al and Gretchen Beatty did an article on this in the spring 2007 Fly Tyer magazine. It’s very thorough and really talks about the good and the hard points of getting into tying for payment. I’ve been toying with the idea for a while now myself, but still haven’t made the jump. The problem here is that there are NO shops that deal with fly fishing in this area that I could deal with. Still researching and thinking.
CJ
Buddy Sanders makes some good points. I might add that if you get some stores to take your flies don’t you go and sell that fly directly to the public. The tackle stores(your wholesale customers) don’t think much of compeating with their suppliers(you). It is not good business. Sorta like one major supplier that has been known to set up their ofwn outlet stores down the road from one of their dealers.
Special orders and flies you are not selling to stores for resale can be sold to the public directly and nobody will care.
Now I have got to get back to figuring my federal excise tax for the last quarter of 2009 and my state sales tax for 2009.
fishbum
i hope nobody takes this as a commercial plug as i mention this in a purely informational way. i can only assume that appropriate tax rules/laws would apply in this venture also.
take a look at the “fly market” on the jstockard site as a means of selling some flies
Be sure to read Al Campbell’s “Get Rich Quick – Commercial Fly Tying” elsewhere on this site.
I think we all day dream about doing this early in our fly tying experiences. I think that you will find as you grow as a tier…that commercial tying is not an easy way to make a living. I have several friends who are professional tiers. They can have at it.
If you don’t have the ability utilize new materials in very creative ways…forget it. To make any sort of living you have to look at this as a game of selling materials…not flies. The flies are just a means. Then you have to find a company that will take you on as one of their pro tiers, or market you patterns. They usually send the work offshore and you get royalties. The companies were you can try to market your creations are the big ones; like Umpqua, Orvis, Raineys, etc. This is actually the best way to get into pro fly tying.
The other way is to find a local shop or shops that does a decent business that needs a tier. You tie what they want OR you tie your unique creations (proven patterns…another topic) for a few shops. Most also guide and put in time operating the shop. A good number of these shops buy most of there flies from off shore suppliers, to improve their profit margin. They have the odd “Local” patterns tied by their staff.
It’s really a very tough and competitive business…and unless you really love tying, to the point were you live and breath tying… don’t give this business another thought. I decided I live and breath to fish…not tie. I like tying. I could easily grow to hate it if I turned it into a profession. I tie a few flies for friends and myself. That’s enough for me.
One day, about 20 or so years ago I was talking to a friend who was a touring professional musician. I play guitar and was asking him how to break into the business.
He asked me if I enjoyed playing guitar. Of course I do. He asked me if I really Really loved playing guitar, and I said yes. His response shocked me. After telling him how much I enjoy playing music, he said “then you don’t want to be in this business.”
I took his advice and still love to play guitar.
I think his point of view may have some application to fly tying. I love tying flies so for that reason, I’ve never thought of doing it for money. I do like to give away flies to fellows I meet when I’m out fishing though.
Jeff
Remember, if your hobby becomes your job, it is no longer your hobby.
In some of my other hobbies, i have known a fair amount of people, even myself in one, that I became way to involved and the hobby became more work than fun.
Paul
For anyone contemplating tying commercially. Try sitting down at your bench and tie the same fly for 5 hours straight. It gets boring, like having your own personal sweatshop. It is very difficult to make wages when you consider that you will only get 1/2 retail for each fly at best. The only way to compete w/ Asian tyers is to market your flies retail. The larger saltwater patterns that retail for $5 and are not that hard to tie is one way to go, although you’ll have to get materials wholesale, because those patterns use up materials. I tried it briefly many years ago and I tried to tie for 8 hrs a day. I couldn’t do it! 5 hours was most I could do before I went stir crazy and wanted to get outside and walk around. It definitely took the fun out of it very quickly for me.
The question I have is where can you get materials wholesale? I know places like Wapsi wont sell to anyone who doesn’t have a shop with a store front and a dedicated fly department. Are there any suppliers that sell wholesale to tyers?
TB
Tying wholesale is a good way to get ripped off for your time. i tie for people who are related to me, and when i taught a fly fishing merit badge, when i had time, i tied at camp and sold to my students. i dont charge as much for the flies as i should, but when ur getting started, cheap is the way to get customers. as you get more, raise prices. i started by selling any fly for 50 c. which is soooo low. as i gained customers, i went to 75c and am working up to the 1.50-2.00 range. also, think about size. do u tie smaller faster, or is it just more frustrating? eventually, i will sell anything below a 14 for 1.50 a piece, and anything above a 6 for 2.00. between that will stay at 1. but look at ur local shops and see how much their flies sell for, sell a little cheaper, and you can make customers fast.
just my 4 c
Jordan
would you recomend just tying and bringing flies fishing and selling them there to other fishers without going through the stores
selling on spot would work too. if your flies look good and you are tying what works on the water. get to know the water you are fishing and tye those in a variety of sizes. When u get out there, dont make a show of selling, but if someone asks what u are using, tell them, then offer to sell and word will spread like wildfire.
Jordan
:roll:
One of those pro tiers I know (won’t mention his name) …managed to make a very simple living doing just that. It took a few years but word of mouth over time, created a big local demand for his flies. This got him into supplying the shops around this part of the province. Illness and drink took it’s toll however and he dropped out of the scene for a few years. He’s been trying to get back in, the last few years…but off shore flies have become the norm for most of the shops he sold to. They don’t want to pay his prices…which is half what they go for in the shops. Off shore is far less. (wider profit margins) He also can’t tie as many flies as he used to. So this year he pretty much gave up.
It’s really not a business for the weak of heart or those who think they can live a good life, fly tying. It’s the very rare person who can, because they also have great people skills. That’s one thing the tier above lacked. His tying skills were superb. That alone no longer works in this business.
As far as obtaining tying materials wholesale? It’s a well guarded commodity. The only way I know of is to be employed by a supplier, to tie flies for them or be on their pro staff. …Or open your own shop. Not a very wise plan. Your best bet is to get to know your local supplier, become buddies and convince them to let you buy in bulk. Not always easy.
You could put up web page…like thousands of other wannabe tiers and see how that works for you, or sell flies by the dozen on eBay. You better check and see what they get for their flies before you get into that…I can tell you, my time is worth more than that.
The last thing that works to get some tiers recognized is to write a book.
If you are looking to tye as a livelihood, sit down an do the math. At $12 a dozen, which is being gracious, to make 48k a year you need to tye 4000 dozen. That’s about 11 dozen you must tye… everyday of the year.That is about a dozen and half an hour of an 8 hour sit at the bench… everyday of the year.
Try that for one week…odds are you will not be having fun by day three.
My last commercial job was for 1200 dozen. That was ten years back and it was the last order I tied or will tie. I did not sit down at the bench for six months after. Redundant tying will sour 99% of those who try it. Like Ron said, it’s as boring a thing to do that I can think of 
Tying for shops for gear or friends for pocket change is much more appealing and in fact, more rewarding.