Castwell's Bargain

FAOL Community Fly Anglers Online
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Just as there is no such thing as a bad fly rod, there is no such thing as a bad fly show. In this case, I mean that, along with Castwell, I agree that the current crop of shows are not overpriced. They deliver value provided that the customer is willing to do a little work for it. Just keep in mind that a $10-14 show is not the same as a similarly priced movie. You have to be more active at a fly fishing show than at a movie show. Castwell’s article spells that out nicely.

J. C. sounds one dark note , however. “I will say this though and hope it doesn’t ruffle any feathers. I saw too many old gray haired gents and not enough of the younger guys and especially kids and teenagers. Maybe they thought it cost too much or maybe they were out fishing. I don’t know.”

I don’t know either, but I can speculate about the demographic. Perhaps, as Castwell says, the $14 is a little more than the young guys want to spend. Perhaps, in deed, it takes a certain amount of gray hairs to appreciate fly fishing. Perhaps we should not worry about the next crop of fly fishers; they just need time to come along. These are decent excuses, I suppose, and reason for optimism. The sun will come out tomorrow.

But what if it does not come out. I remember a some time back when the local hardware store sold flies, leader, and other fly gear. But, a while ago, fly fishing moved away from the common man. Now, if you want to take up fly fishing, it is not a simple matter of grabbing a combo off the rack and heading for the pond as it is with other forms of fishing. Why does fly fishing require so much soul searching and so much money to get started? Has fly fishing become a very elitist hobby? So, if the grey hairs predominate, is it because only they can afford it? Or because only they can remember that it is about fishing and that all the jabber about modulus, weight, speed, furled, taper, and so on, and so on, is so much smoke? Well, there is that possibility that the sport vanishes in a cloud of money priced out of existence.

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I’m 27 and I went to the show in Dallas. There weren’t a lot of bargains at that show (a few but nothing I needed), but the seminars more than made up for it to me. I wasn’t the youngest guy there either. . . I watched Joe Humphreys teach a young kid (I’m guessing younger 10, probably younger than 8 even) make some ~100 foot casts on a spey rod. He was casting about 60 feet with it before Mr. Humphreys helped him out and I was pretty impressed by that at his age.

3

I attended the Great Waters Expo show in the Chicago area this past Saturday. I was there from about 9:30 am to 4pm. I can probably count on one hand the folks i saw under the age of 20.

Last March i attended a big stream restoration seminar in SW Wisconsin. It was well attended by multiple TU chapters from MN, Wis & IL…there were also chapters form IA, IN, OH and i think even MI. I would say attendence represented a pretty good cross section of chapters. This is what my buddy and i took away from the event.

TU is a bunch of middle aged white guys…no youth, no diversity…not sure how that bodes for the future. We were probably the two youngest there…and we’re not young… :?

Just some observations…

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Bear, Bill Brookid, I may be too nostalgic but I think it all reflects back to another era…not a bygone one thankfully, just a time when things were slower and there weren’t 50 million ways to choose from to spend one’s spare time.

New meaning could be given to the often heard expression, ‘take a kid fishing’. Hey, we could all take notice of a young fisher and ask them if they’d like to attend some of the events we go to besides our fly fishing outtings…I’d not be shocked at all to learn they’d want to go. I started fly fishing in a time and place where fly fishers were scarce, at least where I was. Seldom did I see anyone standing in the stream fly fishing and when I did it was driving through it with my parents or grandfather…most always not stopping or being in a position to either, usually bound for somewhere else.

There were a couple of times when I was between 6 and 8 years old though that I did get to watch fly fishers and let me say those images are as clear in my mind today as if they just happened yesterday. Point being I guess, it’s up to us to bring the younger people into the picture so to speak. I mean let’s face it, they don’t really know they want to be fly fishers…yet.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

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I am one of the younger types on this board, though not a teenager anymore, and personally I think it is the closed minded ya gotta do this and ya gotta do that that keeps the younger crowd away. I remember a younger poster on this board from early last year that admitted he like to chase carp with corn and worms on the flyrod because he had a hard time doing it with flies. He got a bunch of gruff from people and I haven’t seen him back since. I know that there are a bunch of good people here on this board that will do anything for you, but it seems like any time someone tries something or asks a question that isn’t considered the norm the gallery rips his head off because it is not good flyfishing. How are you going to attract the younger crowd with open fresh unbiased ideas when they are constantly being told “no”?

I went to a local show and paid my 14 bucks and I wasn’t very impressed. I casted a few rods and went through a bunch of materials. I didn’t like any of the rods I tried that were supposed to be the latest and greatest thing and didn’t find to many tying materials that impressed me either. Though I thought the 14 bucks was high I didn’t feel like I wasted my money either.

As far the the TU type of organizations go I went to one meeting and swore I would never go back because I did not feel like I fit in and it was very uncomfortable. Not just because I was one the youngest one there, I hang out and fish with older folks all the time. It just felt too much like a political function where everyone was too important.

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I am one of the younger ones here. I see alot of other teens and young adults interested in video games and technology than fishing. The way parents bring their kids up has alot to do with it also.The trend in the US is going away from spending time outdoors and enjoying nature.

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IMHO You only have to look at the statistics coming from state fish and game departments concerning the purchase of fishing and hunting licenses to understand why you’re not seeing more young people at the shows. In the West, applications for juvenile licenses is way down, and I suspect the same is true across the country. When you have radical environmental organizations being allowed to spout their views in our schools, teachers espousing the same views, and Scouting organizations being attacked and driven off school grounds, it’s no wonder that today’s youth are not engaging in hunting and fishing activities.

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I think vtfisher hit the nail on the head. According to the Maine department of parks, state park visits are down significantly from years past. I read in the newspaper last fall that even visits to Cape Cod are down. (You’d never know it if you drove to the Cape in the Summer but thats what they say).

One thing I’m certain of is that there is no shortage of fly fisherman on the the rivers. Yes, they tend to be a little bit older but then again many people start off fishing with regular gear then graduate to fly fishing so that makes sense.

My parents live on a lake Ontario tributary that is famous for very large Browns, Salmon and Steelhead. When snagging was legal %99 of the fishing took place in the fall and the river was never very crowded. The fisherman were a different sort of breed then. There was a lot of beer drinking, camp fires and yes litter. Fortunately they tended to snag a fish or two or three and then pack up and go home. So the river was never very crowded and if you didn’t mind walking a little you could find a place to cast a fly in solitude. Sounds odd but I miss those days.

Snagging was made illegal, fly fishing became popular, and now that river is so crowded it is impossible to fish alone on that river from October to April. And fly fisherman make the overcrowding problem worse because they generally C&R fish and thus spend all day on the river.

So am I worried about the future lack of fly fisherman and the sport? Nope there’s plenty of us now and more than a few who have no ethics. That would be a good seminar to have at the shows: Ethics in fly fishing.

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My view on this:

Years ago most people received a high school education and then “hit” the “real” world working at different jobs until they found what took care of their needs money wise. No one was interested in “careers” and impressing everyone their age. There was no competition between people to see who could “out do” the other one in income or living status. Fishing was recreation and time to get away from work for awhile and nothing more.

Now “money” and “careers” and “status” is the important measure for success. No one is satisfied with a high school education and a good stable job anymore. Got to go to college and earn a degree so we can earn “big bucks”, drive fast fancy cars, own Ipods, computers, cell phones, remote controlled everything, GPS guided everywhere,etc. We are constantly competing with each other with who can compile the biggest pile of new “toys” to impress. This “money” driving force has now taken over the manufacturing companies who how have employees with degrees in marketing and all their money is channeled toward the “in” crowd of people wanting the “latest” and “best” so they can give off a “false” impression of “success”. So, the few that are left (I am one) are left out because we just so happen are satisfied with the good stable job we got years ago and have learned to survive on the income we are making and really do not need all the new toys because we are not competing with anyone. We fish for the enjoyment. We are the ones that do not spend a lot of time in the access parking lots comparing our equipment with others. We get our gear and go fishing. The shows are geared more towards the “younger money driven” group that feels it is important to have the “latest” and “greatest” so they can “compete” with others in their age group. Just because someone has gray hair does not mean they are “old”. It could mean that all the competing with others and stress created from the competition of staying one step ahead of the competition has taken it’s toll. I like shows and just go to get out of them what I wanted and pay no attention to all the “latest” and “greatest”.

The day will come when they decide all the “rat race” is just not worth it and they will become the ones, like myself and others, that are just satisfied to fish and lurk and let the “others” compete with each other, have verbal “fights” with each other and continue to stress “their” way of thinking as the “only” way. When that day comes, they will discover the true meaning of relaxation with a fly rod.

As far as TU full of gray haired politicians…I am sorry, but, that is what it takes if you are going to get anything done in this day and age. It takes lots of money and someone with “inside” pull to accomplish what is needed. So, go to your TU meetings and just overlook “money people with pull” because you need them or none of our rivers and fish will recieve any help. You go and provide the other important need of TU and that is someone who is not afraid to get dirty and do manual labor because those people are needed to.

Micropteris — I’m sorry about the youngster who came on here last year talking carp fishing with a fly rod. I remember him very well and if you would just go back and visit those pages you will see that everyone tried to help him getting started with fly fishing. He refused to talk about fly fishing and kept trying to convince everyone to start using worms and sinkers on fly rods. He kept trying to get everyone to drop FAOL and join another web site that used live bait on fly rods. He kept insisting that all fly fishers should forget fly fishing and convert to his way of fishing. He was just very uncooperative and would refuse any assistance given to him. It is a shame, but, that is what I remember about him. I think, if you could find those pages, you will see what I mean.

FAOL is made up of a dedicated group of people that enjoy fly fishing for what it is and that is a recreation and relaxing. I do not feel it is fair to call people purist or elists just because they do not agree with someone elses way of fishing.

I do not know why I took off on this except that maybe I just needed to say it. I am very sorry for boring you all with it. I only hope that maybe the weather will improve so all can get out and fish and start treating everyone like they want to be treated.

JC, I am sorry for going on like this and I will not be upset if you “deleted” it. I apologize to all for this lengthy post that probably makes no sense.

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The closer I keep nipping off the tippet of life, the more I realize some things matter more than others. That being, something I want to see, say a Fly Show coast $14.00 to get in, I will more than likely find a way to budget myseelf in. Lets face it, a tieket to a Rolling Stones concert isn’t going to be had for under $30.00 in the nose bleed section and a Starbucks cup of Joe will set you back $3.50. 4 cups of coffee VS a ticket to something I enjoy…can do.

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Take a look at this website. Click on the “annual Expo” button. Then click on “youth programs”. This is the way to run a show. Free admission. Bus the kids to the show. Have a group of flytying kids their own age, demonstrating how it’s done.
http://www.snakerivercutthroats.com/
This has been a very successful show for the past several years, and draws people from all over the country. They had well over a hundred tyers last year, several of them kids. They had special programs for youngsters as well as something for just about everybody else. You oughta go see it if you can, and then show your locl folks what you learned. This graybeard will hobble out of your way so you can get your moneys worth.

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I think Lew has got it right.
A good idea to take to your local fly fishing club for consideration.

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I was a TU chapter director at 22, but I let my TU membership lapse during my second year after I got sick of the bickering between some of the other members in my chapter. :oops:

I realize that I probably wouldn’t have that same problem in every TU chapter but I haven’t brought myself to join back up (even though I’m in an entirely different state now).

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I responded to this subject on the other thread on Sound Off.
I would like to add that our club use to charge $5 for their annual expo. Attendence was low.
Now that the show is free the place is packed all day.
Lefty was the main speaker this year and we’ve had AK Best, Dave Whitlock, Dan Blanton, and many others in the past.
A reel nice day for free

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I’m new to fly fishing, but have been active in shooting sports for the past 30 years. I’m 46 and am always one of the youngest competitors at a shooting match. There are just very few kids coming up behind us.

My son is 11 and does shoot and does fish, but with soccer, an outrageous amount of homework, longer school years, and other distractions, it’s hard to get him out to the range or the lake/stream.

I’m a very active shooter and fisher and my son has grown up with this. Now, consider most parents are not as involved in outdoor sports as I am and like someone said, the extreme left environmentalists have a ready voice in most of our school systems and you end up with a bunch of gray hairs at fly fishing shows and at the shooting ranges.

Yes, having free admission for kids will help, but the fact of the matter is there are fewer kids interested.

I took my son to the BUFF show in Cincinnati this month. I only saw about 5 or 6 kids there and the show was packed to the point it was difficult to talk with some of the vendors. They let kids under 12 in for free and the entry was only $5.00.

My boy and I had a great time. But unless parents encourage participation and we work with our school systems to bring some sense into the education process, ours may well be the last generation that enjoys fishing and hunting / shooting sports.

Jeff

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I am 59, so I definitely fall into the gray-haired group. I attended the Dallas show and thought the $14.00 fee was just fine, considering what I got for it, which was a lot of information I could use, and a chance to meet a lot of new people I probably never would have met otherwise. I really enjoyed meeting Joe Humphreys and learning a few things from him. I would love to spend a week fishing with that man and just enjoying his company. Oh, Bill Blake, that young boy you saw with the spey rod was Tyler Befus, son of Brad Befus. Tyler was one of the featured fly tiers at the show, and was also supposed to give a presentation on “The Kid’s Perspective on Fishing”. I think Brad told me Tyler caught his first trout at age 3. He is quite an accomplished fisherman by now at age 9. In the booksellers area you could find several copies of his book for kids on fishing that was published last year. Quite a kid. I noticed another young tier there named Travis, but forgot his last name. He looked to be about 12. While waiting for Tyler’s presentation which was apparently cancelled or started late after I left, I saw several young kids in the audience. The future of our sport (passion?) seems to be looking up.

Larry

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I thought that kid knew what he was doing. . . even before the advice from Mr. Humphreys. :wink: I figured he must have had a pretty good fisherman for a dad (or mom).

For me, I think that Joe Humphreys really was the best part of the the show. Though I also did attend a few seminars on saltwater fly fishing here in Texas that were also quite valuable. Did you get to see Mr. Humphreys video presentation as well? I’m still in awe of how well he casts in tight brush and have been periodically chuckling to myself at odd moments for reasons that are inexplicable to those around me. . . unbeknownst to my wife and classmates the reason is I keep thinking about the video he showed fighting the trout that went under the boulder. :lol:

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Watching Joe Humphreys scampering back and forth over that boulder several times before falling a$$ over tea kettle in the water was a hoot. I had to admire his techniques for fishing tight quarters. I’ve done some of that, and it’s not as easy as he makes it look.

Larry Compton

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I would like to respond to JC’s lament on the lack of youth in fly fishing. I attended the Chicago show last week. I can only remember seeing 2 kids and their fathers at the show. The reason I remember this is because it was the first show in the last couple years that I attended without at least one of my three boys. I feel the lack of youth in fly fishing has everything to do with fly fisherman, not the educational system, or left wing tree huggers. Let me illistrate my point with 2 true stories and you can come to your own conclusions.
Ten years ago I took my boys to their first trout stream. Even though they’re ages were 8, 10, and 13, we were all pretty good spin fisherman and I expected a successful time catching trout. We met fly fisherman on the stream. One grey haired fisherman lectured me on the inappropriateness of bring kids to a trout stream, while another grey haired fly fisherman reduced my 10 year old to tears by verbally abusing him for disturbing the pool he was working. Granted, we did not have proper “manners” but nobody bothered to tell us what proper trout stream manners were. That trout stream was our all time worst fishing outing.
Five years later we have a family camping trip at Estes Park Colorado. I talk my kids into trying trout fishing one more time. I hire one guide for the four of us (on a teacher’s salary I had to go cheap). We fished the Upper Thompson. Our poor guide was spread very thin trying to help four novices fly fish for the first time. My younger sons were getting frustrated. We came upon a grey haired fly fisherman as we walked the stream. I was expecting another lecture on the inappropriateness of bring kids to trout streams. Instead, the grey haired fly fisherman saw the frustration of my younger 2 sons and offered to show them how to nymph with an indicator. He fished with my 2 sons for 1 hour. My kids had a blast!! Meanwhile the guide was able to spend more time with my oldest son and I. We left the stream fly fishing converts. A hard working guide and a grey haired flyfisherman banished our spin casting tackle to a forgotten place in the garage. We now have 10 fly rods between us.

Which grey haired fly fisherman are you; first story or second? If the only grey haired fisheman I knew was from the first story there would be no way that I would be contributing to this forum.

caribe

(By the way, is there anyone who contributes to this forum fishing Upper Thompson the second week in August 5 years ago? He did sort of look like JC. Who ever you are, my boys and I owe you big time!!)

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I confess. It wasn’t me. I wish it had been though… :smiley: