I live and work on the East Coast.
I commute on I-95 in heavy traffic laden with diesel and gasoline fumes and where traffic fatalities are a daily occurrence.
I go outside during “ozone” alerts and fish.
I stand and fish in water that has been defined as the most “at risk river” in the US.
It is recommended that we do not eat the fish we catch.
The bugs and animals around me carry disease.
The smokers in the restaurant are spewing toxins with every puff.
The leading cause of death for women is heart attack.
And you want me to worry about using Permethrin!
Lighten up folks, every day is a calculated risk. It’s still a pleasure to wake up on top of the grass.
I can tell that most of you guys know way way more than I do about insect repellants so I won’t go there. But I wear Buzz Off and here’s what I’ve found:
Orvis Buzz Off hat: Yes, nice hat! Buzz Off works for me. No mosquito bites on neck and head or EARS with it on, but when I took it off I got bit.
Buzz Off socks: nice socks. I saw several mosquitos land on my calves and then fly away. Two bit me. Only wore them once so far.
Buzz Off shirt: works for me. no bites when I wear it on my torso or arms
Buzz Off zip-off pants: can’t tell. bought them in a size too small. I’m keeping them as my “inspiration” pants.
BTW, all of these clothes were bought on ebay and were much less than retail. The only ones branded Orvis are the shirt and hat. The others come from Redhead (Bass Pro).
I also carry DEET for when this stuff fails. So far, no DEET needed. My fly lines and my GPS and my other plastic stuff are very happy.
Diane
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-WOW—What A Ride!
Someone on this thread mentioned marigolds In the garden to protect crops from pests . planting marigolds really is quite effective for this purpose . I have used companion gardening for years . But I was quite suprised to learn from my local nurseryperson that you should be sure to use French marigolds as they are way more potent than regular marigolds plus being taller their benefit is spread over a wider area . If they will repel mosquitos we should blanket the woods with them . lol .
The DDT hearings were ordered by then EPA administrator William Ruckelshaus, appointing Judge Edmund Sweeney as the hearing examiner. After 125 witnesses and 9,362 pages of testimony, some of Judge Sweeney’s findings included:
DDT is not a carcinogenic hazard to man.
DDT is not a mutagenic or teratogenic hazard to man.
The use of DDT under the registrations involved does not have a deleterious effect on fish, estuarine organisms, wild birds, or other wildlife.
Scientists were not the only ones to give the exonerating testimony that DDT used properly presented little harm to man, beast, or bird. The World Health Organization also pleaded at the EPA hearings that DDT was very beneficial in fighting malaria in many parts of the world and should not be banned. The WHO said in part “The withdrawal of DDT would be a major tragedy in the chapter of human health.”
Hawk Mountain, Pennsylvania, teams of ornithologists made daily counts of migrating raptors for over 40 years. The counts?published annually by the Hawk Mountain Sanctuary Association?reveal great increases in most kinds of hawks during the DDT years. The osprey counts increased as follows: in 1946, 191; in 1956, 288; in 1967, 457; and in 1972, 630.13 In 1942 Dr. Joseph Hickey?who in 1968 would blame DDT for bird population decline?reported that 70 per-cent of the eastern osprey population had been killed by pole traps around fish hatcheries. That same year, before DDT came into use, Hickey noted a decline in the population of peregrine falcons.
In addition, from 1960 to 1974 WHO screened about 2,000 compounds for use as antimalarial insecticides. Only 30 were judged promising enough to warrant field trials. WHO found that none of those compounds had the persistence of DDT or was as safe as DDT. (Insecticides such as malathion and carbaryl, which are much more toxic than DDT, were used instead.) And?a very important factor for malaria control in less developed countries?all of the substitutes were considerably more expensive than DDT.35
There is another possibly confounding issue as well. In 1998, Royal Society for the Protection of Birds researcher Rhys Green published a study in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B which found that eggshell thinning of some bird species had begun 50 years before the introduction of DDT.
Sorry for the long post,but I feel that the banning of DDT has been responsible for the death and disability of millions in sub-equatorial Africa, Southeast Asia, and South America. I knew and treated some. I will agree that it seem that DEE(a metabolite of DDT) may be harmful to piscine raptors, but they certianly are not to passerine birds.
I am glad to see brown pelicans, peregrines, and kestrals on the upswing even though DDt may not have a lot to do with thier downswing. Was it worth 20 million lives though?
It’s been interesting discussing this topic with you. Thanks for your time.
I don’t believe that any insecticide is safe. I also know that many “studies” are way off track and are conducted by people with varying levels of competence.
If you read my posts you will see that I am not opposed to the use of DDT to control malaria in Africa and I pointed that some African nations do use it. I am not convinced it is safe but it may be safer that other alternatives. I do not like to see Malathion and Carbaryl used. I saw a large healthy dog almost die once after a flea dip in a dog product that contained Carbaryl. We should not forget all insecticides are toxic. The suffix “cide” means “kill.”
I do wonder: if DDT is a nominal health risk to healthy humans how does it affect unhealthy humans? After all Malaria is less a threat in Africa than AIDS. Does DDT harm people with AIDS? I’m sure there’s never been a study.
I am happy to say that the brown pelicans, peregrines, and kestrels on the west coast have made a recovery after DDT (DDE’s source) was banned here. There were studies that support the correlation.
FFjoe,
I agree it has been interesting. Made me do some research. The major way that DDT works in Africa is as a resudual spray on the walls which has been documented to inhibit the bite reflex as anopheles mosquitos rest on a wall before biting.
I most certianly agree all insecticides are dangerous, particularly when people use the “more is better” rule.
It would be interesting to see if there is any effect on AIDS patients. It doesn’t seem likely. I feel malaria is a much more worrisome and prevalent disease though.
Malaria would be one of the most potent bioweapons ever if a different vector could be arranged. (People to People)
Anyway Thanks for the most interesting discussion.
Hurly
A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of small minds
Well, this weekend I actually tried the “Sawyers Military” soak process for their Permethrin based repellent garment treatment.
I was torn between buying the spray version or the soak version. After reading the warnings on the box, I’m glad I went with the soak version. I sure don’t want to spray that stuff on a breezy day!
Very simple. Mix per instructions in the zip-lock bag provided. I set the bag in a plastic bucket and did it outside. Box says it does 1 shirt, 1 trousers and 1 cot net. I did 2 old fishing shirts and 3 cotton neckerchiefs. Roll the garments and place in bag. Seal bag. I laid the bag flat on the grass and turned it every half hour during the 2 hours making certain that everything was saturated. Using the gloves provided in the kit, I hung the garments outside on hangers to dry. When dry, there was no odor and they were still soft.
So much for DIY “Buzz Off”. Next test, does it work?
This year I bought Lemon Eucalyptis Oil, Permethrin and of course DEET.
I use the Permethrin on tents and bags as others have mentioned. The DEET is there for all out assaults.
However, now I use by habit the Lemon Eucalyptis Oil spray. I also use the lotion in a tube. What I have found this spring and summer - it is a lot like Ben-Gay or Vapor rub in that it has a very strong, volatile smell. It works very well as long as the vapors are around you. Once it wears off or is cooler outside, the bugs stick around longer - because it doesn’t kill them, just discourages them. I like the fact it is not toxic though. Do not get it in your eyes.
Like all the other substances, the face and hand areas (because of contact with the face) are always the problem with protection and they are always exposed.
Anyway my older kids and wife seem to tolerate the Lemon Eucaclyptis smell better than DEET.
I used the Permethrin to fog my garage once for insects and it did kill most every little creature.
Back to LF’s point, SmartShield ROCKS. The stuff is awesome, cannot recommend it highly enough. It is all my fishing buddy and I use down here on the coast. It is light, waterproof, is not greasy at all, and doesn’t contain chemicals that will melt your flyline. We put it on first thing in the morning, right after we start the coffee. Great stuff.
