Yes, well said. I think we often forget that one of the beauties of fly fishing is that we can do it on many levels. If we want, we don’t have change flies every thirty minutes or so.
In the end, we’re out there to have a good time.
Randy
This times a hundred. I never claim to be an expert caster. I can’t throw an entire fly line and don’t need to. I can get by nicely, thank you and have never had a lesson. I’ve got maybe 1500 tied up in everything I own. Oh, and I don’t know crap about bugs…
I think this thread is very representative of the best point to be made, but the excerpt I pulled from your post is not.
I believe that what we need is to strike a balance that accurately represents the truth of fly fishing to the non-fly fishing public. And we’re not very good at it at all.
When you go to teach introductory fly fishing classes it is inappropriate to take anything other than low-end consumer rod/reel combos and inexpensive fly tying stuff (unless you’re teaching at some high-end country club or similar environment). Media outlets need to balance their coverage of the sport and lifestyle better, representing all aspects of fly fishing (unless they are a specialized publication). How many articles do we see on rods and reels that cost $500-900 each? Yet, rods and reels that sell for $200 and less outpace those items in terms of units sold by a huge margin year after year! It would be a far better service to the consumer public to inform them about which products are best and for what reasons in the price ranges that they actually buy in the highest volume than it is to focus on the purchasing elite, but they’re chasing the quick ad dollars. Well, if their reader base was a lot bigger they would attract more ad revenue. Readers don’t read irrelevant publications. The media is making itself increasingly irrelevant by taking this short-term “ad agency” approach to profitability instead of taking a longer-term and more professional approach to journalism. Instructors (certified or not) need to make sure we stay student-focused instead of allowing our egos and our own current predilections to get in the way of their learning experiences. We have to put ourselves in their waders (so to speak) and remember not to “over-teach.” But the single biggest thing every fly angler can do to make fly fishing seem more accessible to non-fly anglers is to invite people to join you. Take a buddy fishing! Teach a kid or disabled person to fish! Keep it light-hearted, simple, and fun.
Chapter 1 is how my mentor got me started. It worked.
http://www.hatofmichigan.org/uploads/TyingFlies_ebook.pdf
Godspeed,
Bob
Hello all,
A very interesting thread!
The question I ask myself, is…do ‘we’ make fly fishing difficult, or does the person thinking about trying it perceive it that way?
Which comes first?
When you try anything for the first time, the learning curve is HUUUUUUUGE; a mountain you can’t climb. There are so many things you’ve never heard about or considered. But once you get started, bit by bit, things become clearer, and all the things you are scared of or don’t know, aren’t so imposing. However, this realization only comes AFTER you’ve decided :
" Hey, I WANT to learn more about this." That’s the part of this hobby that is the difficult part (or any pursuit for that matter).
Yes, you CAN learn anything on your own. HOWEVER, it suuuuuuuuuuure is a heckuva lot easier when you have someone showing you!
Do we make it difficult? There may be times when we make it SOUND difficult, but that’s just because we’re all a part of this kinda fraternity, and because we love this thing called flyfishing, we can’t help but be excitied, and maybe that overcomes us. We’ve learned the terminology; know most of the same sorts of things; know the ‘lingo’; we’ve all seen ‘The Movie’. Listening to us speak would be like evesdropping on the Ancient Egyptian Astrology club if you were an outsider…a lot like hearing GREEK! ( I know what that sounds like!HA!) : confusing on the outside, pretty blasee on the inside (ok,ok,not THAT blasee).
I think the unknown is what makes things complicated and scary…once you get past all that, it’s not so bad at all. THAT’S the hardest part for any beginner (or person thinking about beginning)to get past, and they’re the only one that can do that.
To me (as well), flyfishing is a ‘different’ kind of fishing, and therefore it just may not be for everyone. I used to sing barbershop here with a local group, and trying to get members was a chore. But I finally realized that, it’s not for everyone…you either like it, or don’t. So, it is ‘specialized’, in a sense. But we all know that ‘specialized’ is nonsense, probably because we’ve gotten over the secrets, and the secrets aren’t so secret anymore.
We’re climbing the mountain.
I’ve taken a couple of guys flyfishing who were interested, (they were spinfishermen), but flyfishing just wasn’t for them. I’ve had a number of people who have expressed interest in learning how to cast, but they haven’t contacted me to take it further.
You can lead a horse to water…(just remember not to be a NAG! HA!)
I remember a person saying that: ‘the ‘walls’ are purposely built high, in order to keep 90% out. The ones that do scale the wall, deserve to be here.’
Maybe that’s what it’s all about… I don’t know.
If things were easy, then everyone would be doing it: making music, baking, fixing a car, splitting the atom.
Perhaps it takes a certain kind of person…someone it appeals to.
I’ve just bought a new pair of mountain boots now that I’m a 1/4 up the mountain.
The view is great; the journey has been the same; and I’m looking forward to what the next little while will bring.
I love fishing in general, but there’s NOTHING like flyfishing!
If someone came up to me when I was 18 years old and said: “Larry, you’re going to be standing in the middle of river in NY when you’re 39 yrs. old; flyfishing for trout with flies you’ve tied with your own hands…”
I would said: “You’re nuts.”
Cheers from a cashew,
Bad Luck Larry
I am 70 years young and have fished for the last 69 years. I live just south of Dallas where it gets hot in the summer and windy and cold in the summer. I have fished in all kinds of weather. I have fished with trot lines, jugs, cane poles, and G. Loomis Bass rods. Right now I am a bass fisherman and have been for serval years. A friend mentioned fly fishing one day last spring and another traded me a bamboo flyrod. i decided I wanted to become a fly fisherman.
My fly fishing friend said I needed to get a book from L.L. Bean, Fly-Fishing Handbook; read it; then try it. I also need to practice tying knotes and take a quiz on knot tying. I have tried fly fishing in some of the ponds around here and caught bass up to 2 pounds.
It is fun . I have a new TFO rod, a new reel, several flys. and 5 books. I have started tying flys and find that to be relaxing.
What makes fly fishing hard for me? Terminology used, the many things I thought was needed, and the things must be a paticular type and brand. Fly fisherman thank themselves the elitist of fisherman, bass fisherman are red necks. It has been hard to become an elitist.
Thanks for giving me a place to comment.
Stick
It all how you perceive things… elitist I think not… far from it in my view…
Sooo, what’s so hard about fly fishing. In fishing of any sort you toss something out where you think a fish will be that you think he might like to eat or at least pretend to eat. Fly casting. Not so hard. I taught my 15 year old daughter to do it in a half hour. Good enought to catch fish. Expensive. Yeah you can spend a lot on rods and reels but it don’t come anywhere near close to a bass boat. I think the only people who think it is too hard is those who think they are among the elite. And that holds for any type of fisherman.
There are experts in any type of sport. They are people who spend a great deal of effort into being the best. And the very best of them teach others. And they are humble.
And there are beginners.
Godspeed,
Bob
Who are we? What exactly is a beginner? “Beginner” in most enterprises can often be a word synominous with “Novice”. A novice is a person who has engaged in some skill set, yet lacks the experience to have mastered any aspect of it. If a person is a Non-flyfisher, meaning they have never tryed casting a flyline or have attempted to fish with a fly rod, then they are on the outside looking in. Perhaps “we”, those of us who have some experience with the fly rod should be asking those one the outside what they wish to achieve by utilising a fly rod. What is their motivation for attempting to learn this method of fishing? How much instruction do they wish to recieve (some folks prefer to discover as much on their own as possible). Why should “we” dumb down any aspect of our sport, or minimize the emphasis on skill developement? How interesting would our sport be to an outsider if there were no mystery, pomp, art or poetry in its’ articulation?
You may be thinking that I am of an elitist mindset for making such statements. Consider that the “we” in this discussion have spent many, many hours, earning our stripes if you will. Most “outsiders” have had some measure of fishing experience, and most have had their measure of success with the methods previously employed. How else would the average, interested, Non-fly fisher manifest their curiousity into the desire to employ the fly rod as means to catch a fish? Most would agree that such a person, at some level, perceives the challenge of learning to cast and fish with flies as an interesting one at least. The key I believe to getting folks to cross that line, is to uphold the mystery long enough to keep them engaged. This “engagement” should lend itself to a sincere desire to learn. As the novice gains certain skills (whatever that person desires as goals), it only makes sense that their interest would continue to be kindled. We can not assume that all outsiders immediately wish to catch a fish with fly gear. Given the right circumstances, this should be relatively easy for most anyone to achieve (see the classic Guided trip scenarios as previously described in this thread). I have met folks who spent months developing a respectable cast before attemting to fish with a fly rod. I have met folks who tye flies but don’t fly fish.
My whole point is: not to make any assumptions before adressing an interested individuals’ curiousity about fly fishing. Most outsiders that know you are often intrigued by your love of the whole fly fishing experience. They will let you know what it is that they wish to learn initially if you listen to them without preconceived notions. Chances are, they are intrigued with the mystery and the aura that radiates from you as you share your tales of fishing with the fly. Let them dream it, and simply share their dream with them!
aa
I believe the hardest thing about learning to fly fish is practicing. Very few people want to take the time to practice and want to experience the “catching” and “relaxing”. That comes, but it takes time, patience and practice. I think the other thing that seperates people from fly fishing is the determination to try it and stick with it.
I’m in my early thirties and didn’t start fishing until maybe December '06. I was working in a paddling shop in S. Houston selling kayaks like hot cakes to fisherman. I had fairly good background for someone my age in paddling, but fishing never really appealled to me. Fly fishing did, but I had no exposure. So I decided that I would get my 60yo dad out kayaking and I would try fishing so that we could go together. I used a spinning reel and when we got back to the guide’s shop, someone asked who was out with the long rod. To my embarrassment, I admitted it was me playing with the spinning rod. I was trying to figure casting out.
Well, he enjoyed kayaking more than he expected and I was frustrated as hell with fishing. But with determination, I’ve started catching fish. As things work out, the shop I worked for closed and I eventually found myself working at Fishing Tackle Unlimited in Houston. Well, I was going to gleam every bit of knowledge I could from everyone I could. Well, you all can guess how that went. It’s hard to distinguish the BS from the knowledge. But there were two guides/flyfisherman who I asked to teach me to cast and they told me to be careful cuz it was expensive and addicting. So, I had a couple informal lessons at the casting pool and I was off. I spent every lunch break practicing, getting feed back. Just about every other employee made comments about me wanting to be an elitest fly fisherman, but to me, it was about versatility and learning something that I always thought looked cool.
I’ve never had great luck in the salt and I don’t think I’ve ever landed a red, but I’ve been hooked up and that was enough to keep the desire burning. When I moved to WNC, I took up trout fishing which was a huge learning curve, but again, I had a desire and determination to learn. When I came up against a dry spell, my wife was wonderful enough to send me out with a guide for my birthday and I broke the spell and learned some really good stuff. I put that stuff to work a couple weeks ago and caught a nice brown on the Ark in Salida while my wife and son were sitting in a hammock. I couldn’t wipe the smile off my face because I caught the fish using a technique I learned from my wife’s gift.
I’m back on the TX coast now and I miss trout fishing immensly. It’s in my element. I still try to get out on the coast, but it’s so much more work and all I ever seem to catch is bait fish which bugs the hell out of me, but it won’t keep me from trying.
So, I don’t think “we” make it too hard. There are a lot of elements, techniques, gear, etc that make it appear daunting, but what stops most people is the determination, desire and lack of instant gratification. I don’t think that is something we should or can change. It’s a form of meditation and that must come from within.
Doug makes some very good points. In order to develop the skills necessary with fly fishing tackle to catch fish, one must practise! There seldom is “instant gratification” when fishing with fly gear. Perhaps we should just be honest and up front with the newcomer. We need to communicate with them the inherent challenges to fly fishing. Not that it is really that hard, but rather that it requires focus and a level of intensity that they may have not channeled before in their previous fishing experience. One of the biggest challanges a new comer faces is merely getting past their pre-conceived notions about fly fishing and how dificult it is. Sucess with the long rod comes when a person has developed a set of skills that bring them to a point where they are comfortable fishing fly gear. They must embrace the idea that dedication is required to attain a level of mastery of skills that will build their confidence. As they become more confident, they will enjoy the results so much the more!
aa
I see fishing as a hobby or past time that anyone can partake in. Fly fishing is different. It’s more like a relationship with a lover. You can visit every now and then and you may get some pleasure from it, but to really appreciate it, you must devote yourself and your energy to it. It won’t always be kind to you if you try to force it, but once you respect it, nurture it, you know, devote yourself to it, the rewards are beyond compare because you put time and effort into it and worked for it.
Essentially, you get out of it what you put into it. And if you don’t buck up and ask the prettiest girl to dance, you’ll never find out she’s there alone, waiting…
I’ve often thought how lucky I was to have started fly fishing 50 years ago. If I was just getting started today, I don’t think I would take up the sport. I started long before Al Gore thought up the internet. I literally started fly fishing as a youngster using a willow branch, piece of mono, and a “fly” consisting of a piece of sponge with rubber band legs, tied onto a hook with some sewing thread. I didn’t personally know anyone else who fly fished to show me the ropes. I did have access to a small canal that held stunted “sunfish” that were always willing to attack anything that came their way. I spent countless hours over at least a few years joyfully occupied. It wasn’t until a couple years later that my parents bought me my first fly rod and fly reel. They didn’t know anything about tackle, and based their decision solely on buying a rod and reel that were cheap. It didn’t really matter to me, I used that rod and reel for the next 6 or 7 years, caught tons of bluegills.
I took a few years off from fly fishing my last few years of high school, and while in college. Once I started working, I started fly fly fishing again, an my fly fishing arsenal grew at an exponential rate. I’m sure I spent more than the total economy of some small third world countries. Pouring over fishing catalogs and buying stuff was almost as much fun as fishing.
If I was in the position of just getting started today, I know I would first turn to the internet and spend time reading the volumes of information contained “on line”. I sometimes wonder if too much information might not be a bigger curse than not enough information. I think I’d be hard pressed not to leave the research stage under the impression that it would take a major investment of at least multiple hundreds of dollars to buy a suitable rod and reel. After that comes accessories and gadgets, and then the task of suitable fly “selection”.
I actually can personally relate to being a newbie today. As a kid, I also loved shooting a bow and arrow. I had a $35 Fred Bear recurved bow, a suitable .50 bow string, and a half dozen arrows I bought at the local hardware store for $3.00 (I did also use a small flat piece of leather for finger protection). I’ve thought about taking up archery again, but as with fly fishing, most of mainstream archery has gotten a lot more technical and complex than when I was a kid. Having started to do a bit of research regarding how to get back into archery, the complexity/cost of archery was overwhelming to me, I decided to pass.
I’m not the least bit critical of the complexity in terms of equipment and/or advice available. It is all well intentioned and due to the passion that folks feel about their hobbies. That provides a lot of folks with a lot of enjoyment, but it does create a dilemma for the new person who is interested in sticking their toe into the water to see if they too may come to share the same passion and enthusiasm.
I don’t know if there is any conclusion to be drawn. At the risk of adding one more useless bit of information to the cosmos, over the past couple of years I’ve become involved with fishing a fixed- length line system, aka Tenkara. I find it interesting, from my personal observations, the folks who seem to really get bitten by this bug often times fall into one of two “extremes” . One group consists of long time fly fishers, who are looking for a simpler, less complex way to enjoy fishing - sort of getting back to their roots. The other “enthusiasts” are brand new beginners, many have said they had previously looked into fly fishing, but had become overwhelmed. It’s interesting to see how often the folks I talk to fall into one of the two extremes.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but the last two posters before pszy22 are taking us back to the practice, casting lessons, guide, expensive route. Seriously, try a tenkara rod as pszy22 suggested. It just makes it so much easier. A beginner is not going to be making 40 foot casts (and certainly isn’t going to be catching any fish with long casts). A beginner is not going to fish for steelhead or bonefish that are going to get into the backing in seconds. (And what that means is that a beginner doesn’t need a reel). A beginner needs to be able to get a generic non-hatch-matching fly to a fish about 20’ away and get a natural enough drift to fool the fish. Everything else just makes it unnecessarily complicated. What’s more, if the beginner decides he or she likes fishing small streams (or ponds for bluegills) that’s all he’ll ever have to do. A natural drift on a 20’ cast is easier to achieve with a tenkara rod than with any fly rod and reel, period. The long rod holds the light line off the water’s surface so that drag is minimized. The beginner will never have to mend. He’ll never “line” fish. If he fishes a generic wet fly he’ll never have to learn latin. Truly, it is easier than fishing a worm (feathers stay on the hook better).
Well, I still say it takes just as much work and a lot more money to become a respectable bass fisherman as it does to become a respectable fly fisherman. You guys are starting to believe all the hype. I will say this on the positive side. I think wading a stream brings you closer to nature than sitting in a $40,000 bass boat. Given a choice, I’ll take a boo on a small stream anytime.
But you can get a nice tan in a bass boat. And you have a cooler for your beer. And on salt for snook or reds, try slinging a spinner up under the mangroves from 80 feet away with an open face spinning reel. I think a flyrod is a far better choice but there is skill involved in both.
If you push yourself towards the difficult, any sport is hard, requires practice, and skill.
Godspeed,
Bob
When talking about beginners, it would be interesting to have some understanding as to when folks tend to develop an interest in fishing/fly fishing. It seems like if it’s often at a younger age, the beginner may not have much in the way of discretionary income to be able to invest a major outlay. If the interest usually comes later in life, cost may be less of an issue.
So when did you become interested in fishing and/or fly fishing?
I personally got started fishing (with a cane pole and thru the ice) around the age of 6 or 7, and got interested in fly fishing around the age of 12.
No, I wasn’t pushing the more expensive route. My point is that it takes commitment and delaying instant gratification. I haven’t tried Tenkara, but I would and not because you sound like a paid spokesman. On the coast, I don’t think Tenkara is a viable option. Getting to secluded, low-pressured water takes a commitment which I feel is lacking in a lot of people.
Tenkara may exemplify the beauty and simplicity of fly fishing, but I don’t think it will be the next reintroduced thing to bring lots of new people to the sport.
To address the question directly, no, I don’t think “we” have made fly fishing too difficult for beginners. There is something for every person who would like to take the leap. From Tenkara to bamboo to high-end graphite to chasing tarpon, there is something for everyone who is interested in fishing. There is a learning curve to all of it and the beauty of the sport is that there are so many aspects to it and so many species that can be pursued.
I believe some beginners never get there because they defeat themselves by doing too much internet research and overwhelm themselves. I believe so just don’t want to get off the couch or they use any number of excuses not to try.
Fly fishing is like reading a book, you can stick to comic books or read Thoreau or anything in between, but until you stop making excuses about why you can’t or don’t have the time, you’ll never get there.
Its as complicated or as easy as you make it, beginner or experienced.
I don’t think we’ve made it too hard. But the massive amount of media available, has made it more confusing. If a person steps back and actually realizes that 95% of everything out there, you really don’t “need”…it gets alot easier. I can go out with a $29 Walmart my rod with a floating line and leader, and everything else in one pocket…and catch fish all day. So why do I still go out with a full vest/pack, and countless other over-priced pieces of gear? Because like most of us out there, I am an idiot desperately seeking a village. 
When I started reading Warren Patterson’s piece (the essay that started this discussion), I was sure he was leading up to a pitch for tenkara. The farther I read, the surer I was. But the T-word never appeared. Perhaps he is working on a supplement, sort of a Rest of the Story item.
Paul Arnold,
When I do decide to write something, it will only be on a subject that I have experience with and Tenkara is not something I have experience with. I try to write an article based on what I observe or feel about a subject. I feel very strong about teaching more people about fly fishing because it is such a rewarding experience. I do feel that a person can catch more fish using a fly rod because fly fishing permits the fly to be in the strike area longer and allows the fly to “act” more natural. Let’s face it, a spinner being ripped past a fish is only going to get a reaction bite and a fly drifting along in the current allows the fish more time to decide if they wish to strike it or not even if they are not hungry. If you tie your own flies you will be more likely to allow it to get closer or into the snaggy areas of water because you have more if you lose it or can tie more when you get back home. (I feel another article coming on fly tying benefits, so, I will stop here! : )
At this time, with no experience with Tenkara, I feel that one would not be teaching fly fishing to a beginner if they teach them with Tenkara. Don’t get all upset here, give me time to explain my thoughts. Paul, I know that you are into Tenkara from reading your Profile, please understand that you did not start out fly fishing with a Tenkara style. You started out with a standard fly rod and progresed to Tenkara which is all part of the sport. A lot of fly fishers will try Tenkara just to see what it is all about and I feel they will flip back and forth using standard equipment on some outings and Tenkara on others. With this thought in mind, I feel one must start the beginner out with standard equipment so that they can learn mending, casting, hook set, landing fish and other things one cannot or do not need to know with Tenkara. Tenkara is something new to the fly fishing sport and you do not see many, if any, fly fishermen/women using Tenkara on the rivers that you fish because it is new, so, I do not feel the Tenkara style of fishing as being the “drawing card” that got the beginner interested in fly fishing in the beginning. My feeling only is that the style of fishing with the Tenkara rod is just another progression that the beginner may or may not progress to as they navigate through fly fishing 101. Same with they may or may not progress to dry fly fishing or midge fishing. I am not “putting down” fishing with a Tenkara rod because there are places where I feel it would be a lot of fun to use. I guess, to make a long story shorter, is that my feelings are that a beginner who starts out with standard fly fishing equipment may progress to a Tenkara rod, but, if they started out with a Tenkara rod first, they may never progress to standard fly fishing equipment or still wonder what fly fishing with standard equipment was like. Standard fly fishing equipment is the “beginning” of learning to fish a fly and Tenkara is just another way, that is new here, to fish a fly. One must start at the beginning in my mind. Just my thoughts and nothing more and if my thoughts upset anyone, I apologize because that was not my intentions…