I intend to try some of the ideas put forth in this thread because I like the procedure and want to see what the results look like. Several years ago I remember reading about "reverse tying" and now I do not remember who submitted it or where I read it, but, it might have been A.K. Best but I am not sure. I know I tried it and have used "reverse tying" ever since. I think it is easier to palmer hackle and I like the looks of the fly better. For example, when you tie a bugger, tie in the chenille and hackle up front behind the hook eye and then run your thread bobbin back to the tail tie-in point and leave it there. Wrap the chenille to the back, tie off with the thread and cut off the excess and then palmer the hackle to the tail tie-in point and tie off with your thread and cut off the excess. Then you can work your thread back through the body to the hook eye and create your head and whip finish. Doing it this way eliminates the bulk behind the hook eye and, in my opinion, makes the hackle lie back more naturally and looks better. Working the thread bobbin back and forth as you bring the thread back to the hook eye creates the rib that makes the hackle more durable and the small diameter of the tying thread does not trap any hackles. I try to always use thread as close to the body color as I can get and you never see the thread in the finished fly. Doing it this way also eliminates "counter wrapping" because the hackle leans back as you palmer it to the back and when you bring the thread to the front it will be wrapping over the hackle just like "counter wrapping" except you do not have to change the wrapping direction. I love "tying in reverse"!