What to tie to the furled?

Fishing Furling
1

Okay, I’m an old timer and back when I did so much fly fishing before I got into trash fish like bass and walleye for years I tied a nail knot with 30#, then tapered down from there to tippet. I never used “x” tippets back then. 4# for streams, 8# for river mouth steelhead and coasters, 12# for bass bugs and pike. Now I’ve been convinced to use the furled leaders and a person on another board makes and sells them so I have some on most of my reels. Going from crystal clear and shallow streams, thru tailwaters, and into heavy fishing bass and salmon, how do you handle the tipper questions. So far I’ve either just tied about 4’ of 8# for the bass lakes or 2’ of 3x and 3’ of 5x or lighter for the streams. Can you guys give me some insight on what you tie to the little ring in various situations?

I should add that most of my leaders are in the 70" range, with a few of 48". They are thread wound leaders and I’m going to experiment with a couple of his “strike indicator” leaders this year with about 20" of bright orange leadin to the ring. With my easy mend Orvis with the orange tip and the strike indicator leader maybe I can actually begin to hook more than 10% of the fish that yank on my line.:???:

2

vicrider,

It sounds like you are tieing on very short pieces of tippet, I mainly use 7’ to 9’ furled leaders, when doing this I never start with less than 6’ of tippet. but depending on the furled leader I sometimes use up to 10’ of tippet. Haveing said this, I can turn that much leader and tippet over, also by doing this, as the tippet gets worn I can cut off a few inches and re- tie the fly. I will do this till I get down to 4’ of tippet then i put new tippet on. Exeryone may not agree, but its what I do. hope this helps

fishwater

3

Usually do what you do, vicrider. I think fish are less leader shy then we might think. I go with five or six feet of tippet. For really clear water I will add a foot or two more.

4

Thanx guys. I have a question for fishwater. When you put that much leader on are you using all the same “x” or #test leader. Seems like with a 7’ furled leader and 10’ of something like 4x or 5x it would be hard to turn over that much. In a lot of cases the leader curling down is a good thing but for me to straighten that much seems tough. Doubt I could do it. I guess I don’t completely understand the concept of tapered leaders yet. Is it an extension of the fly line that is supposed to unroll as if it was NOT a leader but rather a taper consistent with the line. Should I think in terms of the furled leader just giving a softer presentation and my leader doesn’t really start until I tie to the ring? I have read of guys running 10’ leaders after the furled but they taper them as if they were starting at the nail knot. Seems like overkill. Why use the furled if you do that?

5

… are mostly both situational and personal preference.

I can only speak to fishing for trout in moving water, mostly freestone streams in the Intermountain West and the Northern Rockies.

Typically, I use thread furled leaders around 5’ 8" long with about 3-4’ of 4X tippet for dry flies. I don’t use thread furled leaders for nymph fishing, unless is it a small nymph trailing a dry fished off a thread leader.

I have done some experiments using shorter tippets, based on my belief from my experience that leader color and tippet length are not nearly as critical as many people think. This fishy, and a few others taken during the same experiment, ate a large salmonfly dry fished with 9" of tippet off a bright orange thread furled leader.

On a number of occasions, tippet lengths of a couple feet or less fished off lighter color thread furled leaders have done just fine. And not just fishing those roiling sections of freestones where folks like to point out the fishy only has a nano second to react to the fly - but also on very soft water that is more akin to spring creek conditions or stillwater fishing.

Longer tippets generally just serve to compensate for the relative stiffness of the leader. If you eliminate the relatively stiff mono or fluoro leader material, which wants to steer the fly, you don’t need a lot of tippet. Replace several feet, typically 6’ to 9’ of mono / fluoro leader, whether tapered or furled, with a thread furled leader and you can do with a lot less tippet and get a better presentation ( drift ) and catch more fishies.

John

6

Thank you for that John. Very descriptive and helpful. I’ll be doing furled leaders starting with maybe 4’ of what planned #/x I figure on using. Then if I want to add a finer piece on I can just surgeon knot a lighter tippet if it seems necessary. As for nymphing, the same guy who makes the furled leaders treated with his “guaranteed” never sink home brew also makes furled for sinking lines treated with his fast sink home brew. A good write up and appreciated.

7

… of thread, mono, and fluoro, I copied the following from an earlier thread on furled leaders.

Originally Posted by JohnScott
… of Rio Powerflex 6X mono tippet …

… Berkley Vanish 2 lb fluoro tip end ( six strands ) …

… and Danville 210 FlyMaster Plus butt end ( ten strands ) …

The mono tippet and the fluoro furled leader do not get more supple when wet. The Danville 210 thread furled leader does get more supple when wet.

It seems obvious to me which ones are most likely to negatively affect the drift and which one is most likely to positively affect the drift.

… and here is the tip end of a Danville 210 Flymaster Plus furled leader …

… dry …

… and wet …

Since those pix were posted, I received a furled mono leader which was made out of one of the most supple monos available, according to the fellow who sent it to me. The memory is minimal and easily stretched out, but it is still relatively stiff - the last two inches at the tip end when held straight up look pretty much like the pic of the fluoro above.

On the subject of tippet length, here is some Wisdom of the Guides from Craig Matthews in an interview with Paul Arnold back in the late '90’s.

Tapered mono leaders and mono and fluoro furled leaders, until they get down to the tippet section, are pretty darned stiff. To compensate for that stiffness, as Matthews points out in the last two sentences, a longer tippet section is needed to get a good drift. That really is the essence of what he is saying.

Now with thread furled leaders, you maintain the ability to turn the fly over with accuracy and a soft landing, but you eliminate all that relatively stiff tapered mono between the end of the fly line and the beginning of the tippet section.

Thread furled leaders are so supple, more supple than 6X tippet, that it is pretty much like just having air between the fly line and the tippet. The tippet is actually the least supple part of the rigging. So instead of using really long leader / tippet combinations, you can use relatively short leader / tippet combinations and get a practically perfect drift. With a little practice, you can pile up the butt and mid sections of the leader - try that with a tapered mono leader. A 6’ thread furled leader with 3’ of appropriate tippet is probably the functional equivalent of Matthews 16’ to 20’ of mono.

John

8

[QUOTE=vicrider;473975]Okay, I’m an old timer and back when I did so much fly fishing before I got into trash fish like bass and walleye…"

Your are kidding …aren’t you?:roll:

9

Yeah, I am…sort of. I’ve gone thru several moves and changes in my life and whatever I was fishing for at the time we’d kid about someone else’s primary quarry. In early youth in IL I fished a lot of bullheads, catfish, 'gills, and caught suckers and carp along with them. Later on I got into bass and musky. Then in northern WI and MN I got heavy into trout in streams, and even had a charter boat license and chartered on Lake Superior for a few years, and my inland lake fishing was mostly walleye and some trout lakes… When I moved to Minneapolis I got into bass fishing in a big way, then retired and moved to OK where it’s bass and catfish again, with crappies in the mix like days of old. A yearning to get back to basics (expensive basics) has me into bamboo, and of course that takes you to trout fishing and a return to fly tying. In early years I was extremely proficient with a fly rod, now am trying to relearn the techniques, and it’s not as easy to get it back as I thougth it would be.

So anyway, I respect ALL fish, from creek chubs to tarpon (tho I’ve never fished saltwater yet), and yes…I was kidding. I used to fish musky and northern a lot, and of course now that I don’t have them available I refer to friends who fish them up north as those slimy critters with the nasty teeth. All in fun.

And John Scott, thanx for the great writeup. My friend I buy the leaders from does them with thread. Lighter for trout and trash fish;), heavier for salmon, steelhead and larger trash fish.:smiley: