Having gotten a few in swaps and seen them in stores I think they are the most variable of fly patterns. This is what I think of when I think of a muddler except when I choose to tie it differently.
I think the answer to the question is one I got at the first trout fishing get together I attended; It should look like something a fish would like to eat.
So, leave off everything behind the head and call it a fish pellet?
Here’s a pretty good video
http://www.orvisnews.com/FlyFishing/video%20how%20to%20tie%20the%20muddler%20minnow.aspx
Perhaps this will answer what a Muddler should look like.
Sorry about the sideways view.
For my purposes, a Muddler Minnow should look like a Marabou Muddler or Kiwi Muddler…
Hi Fishbum,
Wow, that is truly neat! Thanks for posting the picture.
Thanks and regards,
Gandolf
Is that the guy who originated the muddler? What is his last name?
For sure and apparently Bailey’s refinement came soon or at least within a few years.
Found this looking for Gapen’s original recipe,.
Gapen’s original Muddler had a fairly sparse and
ragged head of loosely spun deer hair, but the more
densely spun and clipped head found on today’s
Muddlers was a refinement by Dan Bailey. In the late
1950s, Muddler Minnows of various types accounted
for over half of the oversized trout (4+ pounds) immortalized
on the “Wall of Fame” of Bailey’s fly shop.
Based on that picture some of the ones I’ve seen weren’t as far of as I thought.
AKA…the “Cockatush”.
Should look somewhat like a sculpin…
Where did you find this copy of my high school yearbook photo?? :lol:
All y’all,
I don’t know how to use Photo Bucket, but if someone will email me, I will attach an article from 1954 that was the first published picture and description of Gapen’s Muddler, who can then post it here for everyone to see and read.
Regards,
Bill
This has been kind of a timely thread for me as I’ve been increasingly interested in tying some of the old classics as accurately as possible to the original.
Muddler
in Bates’ Streamer Fly Tying & Fishing and reportedly tied by Gapen.
It’s from the 1995 edition but the same tie is shown in the 1950 1st edition.
The head remains fairly loose but a lot fuller than the original fishbum posted.
Did contact Bill in case no one else did to see what he has.
Funny how the same search engine can give different results on different days???:roll:
Just found this
I’ve got some older tying books laying around.
Seems most agree on the materials and ‘look’ behind the deer hair head. One notable exception to this is Jack Dennis, who, bemoaning a lack of quality matched turky quills, used the same quill to pair up the wing. This gives a wing with a decided curve in one direction. His reasoning, and I’ve tested it and he has a point, is that this gives the bait an interesting ‘wiggle’ side to side in moving water.
The real ‘change’ I’ve noticed is that the amount and sculpting of the head vary considerably from tyer to tyer. Even Gapens ‘own’ flies vary considerably over time. What I seem to see is progressively more deer hair being used over time, and eventually more ‘shaping’ of the head.
From all reports, the initial tie of the Muddler was deadly. I’ve had limited success with Muddlers, and prefer other flies that are more efffective for me. But I do wonder what would happen if we tied them now like the one Nam posted. Which, as far as I can tell, is pretty close to the ‘original’ (maybe).
Buddy
“pretty close to the ‘original’ (maybe).”
These are from Bill which may or may not clear the Muddler water.
My response to the original question is: it should look the way I want it to look 
If it is to imitate a sculpin it should not be very buoyant (‘loose’ deer hair head/collar) and wide, not round.
If not to imitate a sculpin but a more generic streamer, then all bets are off :lol:
Cheers,
Hans W
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I’m worried…seems the muddler may be on the edge of extinction.</div><div><br></div><div>The way I see things Al McClane was the one who put the fly on the map. I’m pretty sure when Al died if you searched the white satin in his coffin you were going to ***** your finger on the hook point of a muddler. Seems Al had a hard time selling his enthusiasm for the fly to the fly shops of the day, Darbee, Bailey and others would kinda shrug their shoulders when Al threw the muddler on the table for inspection. He took them fishing, man on man, and convinced his fishing partners the fly was something special, not by his fishing prowess, but letting his buddies realize how good the pattern was for themselves. Al fished the muddler as more of an insect imitation than a sculpin or baitfish. He targeted bass and trout in lakes and slow moving water with great success.<br><br>From “Fishing With McClane”:<br><br></div><div>
</div><div><br></div><div>A few years back I visited a local fly shop. There is a fly bin on the way out of the shop with discounted flies.I stopped to take a look and pinched an absolutely beautiful # 4 Muddler tied with the mottled oak and all…what’s the deal with these I asked the shop man. He said: “people just don’t buy 'em anymore”. They were 50 cents a piece!</div><div><br></div><div>Today I visited Dan Baileys online shop. You know what…I couldn’t buy a Muddler…wow! What stopped me from tying the muddler was the cost of the mottled oak turkey feather for the wing and I’ll bet the same happened for the shops.</div>
I’m worried…seems the muddler may be on the edge of extinction.
The way I see things Al McClane was the one who put the fly on the map. I’m pretty sure when Al died if you searched the white satin in his coffin you were going to ***** your finger on the hook point of a muddler. Seems Al had a hard time selling his enthusiasm for the fly to the fly shops of the day, Darbee, Bailey and others would kinda shrug their shoulders when Al threw the muddler on the table for inspection. He took them fishing, man on man, and convinced his fishing partners the fly was something special, not by his fishing prowess, but letting his buddies realize how good the pattern was for themselves. Al fished the muddler as more of an insect imitation than a sculpin or baitfish. He targeted bass and trout in lakes and slow moving water with great success.
A few years back I visited a local fly shop. There is a fly bin on the way out of the shop with discounted flies.I stopped to take a look and pinched an absolutely beautiful # 4 Muddler tied with the mottled oak and all…what’s the deal with these I asked the shop man. He said: “people just don’t buy 'em anymore”. They were 50 cents a piece!
Today I visited Dan Baileys online shop. You know what…I couldn’t buy a Muddler…wow! What stopped me from tying the muddler was the cost of the mottled oak turkey feather for the wing and I’ll bet the same happened for the shops.