I have never used a furled leader, what are the benefits of a furled leader? I have been using the store bought leaders for over 20yrs and never thought there has to be a better way. So whats it all about?
A furled leader is long lasting using a loop to loop connection for the tippet. A furled leader will last a season or more.
They have little to no memory, no “Slinky” on the end of your fly line.
A furled leader can be cast just like a fly line allowing the use of longer tippets.
Excelent presentation.
There’s much more and I’m sure otheres will be chiming in.
… not a question of what the benefits are, but how to organize / prioritize them. Some that come to mind, in order of importance.
Presentation. I really can only speak to thread furled leaders since that is what I use for almost all of my trout fishing on freestone streams in the Intermountain West.
Thread leaders are probably the most supple thing in fly fishing. Try holding a piece of 5X tippet straight up. Some length of it will stand vertically until it is long enough to bend it over. Try holding a furled thread leader straight up. No can do. That translates, on the water, to a leader that absorbs all the little currents between the end of the fly line and the tippet. That enhances the prospects of a perfect drift.
Furled leaders turn over flies quite nicely. The thread versions do have limitations on how nicely they will turn over larger flies, but they will turn them over and put them in position to begin a perfect drift. They excel at landing flies softly, from very small dries to very large dries that will often just flutter down onto the surface of the water. All that given reasonably good casting skills.
Furled leaders can cast loops by hand. They can cast nice loops with no fly line out the tip top. They mend very well with little or no line out the tip top. They pick up off the water very quietly. They may pick up and spray a bit of water, but on freestone streams and rivers, not enough spray to bother the fish and on any larger piece of water that spray does not have to go near the fishies.
Availability. I can make them at home. When I need them. Which is not very often. Because …
Durability even with thread leaders is very good. I can use a thread furled leader for many, many outings before it will start to show any wear. Since there is a tip ring, adding fresh or longer or a different size tippet is a matter of a clinch knot at the tip end of the furled leader with the butt end of the tippet. Wind knots, which are pretty rare with furled leaders, do knot weaken the leader - if you get to them soon enough, you can unknot them, and if knot, just tighten them up and keep on fishing.
Flexibility. Not in the sense of suppleness, but in the sense of use. I can use the same exact leader on rod weights 3 through 7, with tippets from 6X up to 2X ( the range I use ) and dry flies from size 20 to size 2. The presentations will vary somewhat, but when all is said and done, the fly is on the water with a great drift. I can use the same leader for dry / dropper set ups, and for straight nymphing, although there are better options for nymphing.
Submersion. My preference is for the leader to submerge, not float. A minority of furled leader users share this preference. All I can say is - try it. A submerged thread furled leader will not sink even a small dry fly. I am not certain of this observation, but I do think that submerged leaders do enhance hooking up, at least in some situations. ( There are ways to make a thread leader float, if that is the way you want to fish it. )
Cost. I can make a basic thread furled leader in about ten minutes for about 35 cents. If I add a tip ring, the cost goes up to about 75 cents ( although there is a source of usable tip rings for as little as 10 cents each, but the quality is decidedly inferior ). The tip rings can be removed from a worn out leader and reused, which does reduce the cost over time.
John
P.S. Thread furled leaders do have a few characteristics which can be a bit annoying. But the benefits certainly outweigh the minor, occasional annoyances of using them.
Well Said, John. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I use a furled leader for my dry fly fishing that is made from Flourocarbon. Much like the others, it is very durable, turns over the fly every time regardless of how bad the rest of my cast was, and best of all no memory. Now unlike John’s furled leader, mine is a bit stiffer than uni-thread.
I have used it for nymphing, but like John, not my preference. I use a leader roughly the length of my rod. My 7’6" 3wt, I use a 6’ leader. On my 9’ 6wt, I use a 9’ leader. For a dry-dropper or dry-dry combo, it is hands down the best thing for me since sliced bread. I get so many less tangles with it for some reason. I usually attach 2-5’ of tippet, depending on where and my plans for fishing on the day. Tippet matched to the size of the fly by the standard divide by 4 means (ie. size 16 fly goes onto 4x tippet).
Unlike John, I don’t make my own. I have no idea how to make them! If I could find a source for a threaded furl leader, I’d probably buy from them just to try it out.
One furled leader lasted me all last season, and so far going strong this season with no wear.
Paul
Actually, I use Danville 210 Flymaster Plus fly tying thread for my standard leader. I have fished with a leader made from uni-thread, and it seemed to me that the leader wanted to actually sink rather than just submerge, and that it did sink the fly.
I tried a fluoro leader for dry fly fishing, and it definitely wants to sink my dry flies, even the larger ones, on longer drifts. Its okay for short dry fly drifts, but I built it for nymphing, and it does just fine in that application.
Regarding the improved hook ups. This is anecdotal, as an example, and not definitive. A friend of mine down in SE Idaho fished a backcountry cutthroat stream several years ago. He told me about having 25 fishies hit the fly, and he only hooked and landed five of them. When I asked, he told me he was using a standard mono 4X leader. I suggested he try again with the thread furled leader I had given him. A few days later, he called to tell me about his return trip - using the thread furled leader, he had 25 cutts hit the fly and he hooked and landed twenty of them.
My take on this is that with the slack in the thread leader and some give to it, you can pull the trigger quicker with a thread leader and not move the fly as quickly, giving the trout more time to actually eat and hook up.
The other thing regarding hook ups that occurred to me several days ago is that with the submerged furled leader and tippet, when you do pull the trigger, the fly is going to move down into the strike, not up or out and away from it.
One other thing ( for the time being, at least ). You can use shorter, and heavier tippets. I think most people have to use longer, finer tippets to make up for the butt and mid sections of a standard mono leader. All that relatively stiff mono in the butt and mid sections wants to “steer” the tippet and the fly, leading to presentation / drift issues which can be solved by really long, fine tippets, to some extent, anyway. BUT the thread furled leaders do not have any tendency to “steer” the tippet and fly - in fact, just the opposite is true, the leader is actually absorbing currents and helping the tippet, even a heavier, shorter one, give the fly a good, dragfree ride.
If you want to buy furled leaders, check with Jack Hise and Kaboom1. They build quite the variety of leaders, and I think their prices are very competitive.
John
Today on the Lochsa, with an FEB skwala fished off a bright gold thread furled leader with about 3-4’ of 4X tippet. One of six that hit the fly, and four landed with it. Another one came unbuttoned after a bit of a tussle, nothing to do with a thread furled leader.
Hi John, A great write-up but I’m anxious to know what the “annoying” things are. Thanks/
I have built my own Knotted Tapered Leaders, in the early years of my fly fishing. Later I move on to Commercial Made Tapered Leaders. Both of these Tapered Furled Leaders where lacking in one thing, uniformity of continuous taper from the butt end to the tip end of the leader.
Knotted Tapered Leaders had the knots that attract algae when casting.
The Commercial Nylon Tapered Leaders have a Butt section that is 60% of the total length, then they cram all the other segments into 20% of the leader, finishing off with the tip section being the final 20%.
I have written on furled taper leaders on this Bulletin Board, and have written articles on FAOL about, my “Big Furled Leader Formula”. Furled Leaders can be any percentage of taper, 50%…53%…57%…60%.
The furled leader can be 7?-5?-3?, 6?-4?-2? or what ever loop sequence you wish. The thread can be of any diameter, weight or material.
You can use any color of thread, or combination of two colors, to match the color of the water your fishing.
You can dip your finished furled leader in a can of warmed varnish, wish will help seal the threads tightly together, and give the finished furled leader a backbone to help the cast.
You will need to build a furled leader board the look like a 9 foot long cribbage board, with just the hole positions you need for a the loop sequence and length you wish to build.
I am willing to mail anyone who is interested in furled leaders a PDF Version of my "Big Furled Leader Formula’s. These are my calculations in three tapers (50%, 55%,60%), in three lengths (6 ft, 7? ft, 9 ft), These calculations are done in both Metric (centimeter) and English (inches) for the peg positions on the furled leader board.
I cover all costs of the “Big Furled Leader Formula CD” and the cost of postage anywhere in the world…
contact me at my email address: parnelli@comcast.net
[i][b]~Parnelli 
[/b][/i]
Annoying Things are mostly your failure to take up building your own Tapered Furled Leaders, earlier.
I created the “Big Furled Leader Formula” that eliminates the hinge effect in the non-uniform tapered furled leaders formulas of others. I offer my Free “Big Furled Leader Formula CD” (PDF) at no cost of the CD or mailing to anyone, any where in the world.
To get this free CD, contact me at my email address:parnelli@comcast.net
I also offer all FAOL Fly Patterns that have run on FAOL over the past 14 years, as a CD (PDF) again at no cost for the CD or mailing.
~Parnelli
Ray -
My apologies. I didn’t get back to this thread until this morning. :oops:
The annoying things using thread furled leaders are that they don’t much like the wind, if you stretch them and then release the tension instantaneously, they end up in what looks like a huge knot but really is only a big twisted mess, and that they can be frustrating if you are fishing around streamside foliage with lots of small twigs, or needles, or thorns.
I confine my comments to thread leaders because that is what I use almost exclusively. You can learn to deal with the wind, if you want to. That big ball of twist can be worked out with a bit of patience and knowing that you have to start at the tip end and work it out up toward the butt end. The streamside foliage you just have to deal with - that thread is going to grab and hold on in a way that mono or fluoro won’t, and it will test your patience.
But the bottom line is, for me, the advantages which are always there far outweight the annoyances which are occasional, and pretty minor when you get right down to it.
I suppose some would consider the fact that the thread leaders want to submerge annoying, and the need to dress them somehow to keep them floating also annoying. I like my leaders to submerge, so I don’t consider that an annoyance, but an advantage.
John
I have fished the thread leader you mailed me for a couple of years now. I put it on my 3 wt. which I use mostly for fishing dry flies and a droppers rigs. The fact the leader hangs in the film do not hinder the fly in anyway to the best of my observation. I do not consider myself a furled leader fanatic but mysteriously all of my rods now seem to have some version of the same on them, some badly done I should note. But even the badly done versions work pretty well.
… and what your priorities are.
It does seem to me that dipping a thread furled leader in varnish as you describe will make it less supple. Is that your experience, Steve ??
Since I consider the suppleness of a thread furled leader the highest priority, way beyond having backbone to help the cast, I wouldn’t even consider putting anything on a thread leader ( unless I was going to a casting demonstration or competition instead of fishing ).
John
You can dip your finished furled leader in a can of warmed varnish, wish will help seal the threads tightly together, and give the finished furled leader a backbone to help the cast.
[i][b]~Parnelli
[/b][/i][/QUOTE]
You can also add ‘backbone’ by furling to 20-25% reduction. Such reduction produces a much tighter twist which results in making the leader stiffer. The degree of increase of stiffness seems to also be a function of the diameter, or tensile strength, of the material being used. With heavier, or greater tensile strength, materials; beyond about 22% reduction tends to produce leaders that can be too stiff; having lost their suppleness. For example, I use polyester threads that are equivalent to UNI 3/0, 6/0, and 8/0. I limit my reduction to 20% for the 3/0, and to 22% for the 6/0 and 8/0, and retain a desirable suppleness for my fishing (LMB and ‘bream’).
If you want to stiffen a thread leader, just add one strand(1 down and back) of 2# test mono to the leader before furling. Works like a charm.
Brad
Brad;
That is such a simple solution to a very common problem. Does that really stiffen it up? How did you gather the data to prove this was the answer?
Jack,
Because I tried Viagra, and it not work 
.
Really, I just thought through the problem. Mono is stiffer than thread. I thought I would try just one pass of mono, and it worked great! I have tried the varnish route(several brands) and it its messy to apply and takes a while to dry. In general, it was a PITA. Adding the mono adds about 2 minutes to the furling time, and it works…why try to re-invent nthe wheel??
Brad
I’m with Brad (aka kaboom) on this one. I add a single strand of mono through my leaders to help give them a little more umph. works well with the larger flies as well. Also as to what age sage says is true as well. The mono mixed with my ultra fine thread helps make the leader a bit stronger at the tip end as well. Kinda like adding a strand of braided line for extra strong leaders. For ultra fine dries though nothing beats a straight thread leader in presentation. Can’t find a knotted or traditional leader that does it as nice as a furled thread leader!
Cheers,
Brandon
To elaborate on my earlier post (#13), as I fish almost exclusively today for large mouth bass and ‘bream’ in weed/‘stickup’ infested waters and use deer hair and balsa/cork bodied popping bugs up to 1/0, I definitely prefer a slightly stiff leader. I also prefer 6ft leaders for my fishing. After much ‘playing around’, I finally settled on Guetermann “Sew All” thread. It is a polyester, and is equivalent to UNI 3/0 in both it’s diameter and tensile strength; plus, it is availabel at al JoAnn’s Fabrics and Craft stores. I can get a very decent leader with this material and a 10% reduction furling as Skip Shorb, my mentor, does. However, when I started playing around using the very basic techniques for rope laying, i.e., using a top, letting the tippet end twist using a ball bearing barrel swivel, and furling and twisting (redundant terms) in one operation, I found that I get precisely what I want with a 20% reduction. This leader handles the big 'bugs quite well, and is a great ‘wind-cutter’. It also handles #8 bugs with equal aplomb.
Just for "grins’, when I started ‘playing’ with this method, I did a 2-strand ‘rope’ using 20# braided dacron backing, and furled to a 30% reduction. I have a beautiful 2-strand rope that can stand on it’s own! There is one caveat to using this technique: getting the strrands furled all the way to the hooks is next to impossible to do unless you add “extenders” to the hooks and attach the butt end loops to these at the outset.
There is one caveat to using this technique: getting the strrands furled all the way to the hooks is next to impossible to do unless you add “extenders” to the hooks and attach the butt end loops to these at the outset.
Not really…do it all the time. Just need to know what you are doing.
Brad
I don’t see the problem of getting to the end using the RLT, as I have seen your set up.
Brandon