Wets and Hook sizes

All about flies Fly Tying
1

O.K. with so many of you guys into wet flies, this should be a breeze.

I’m talking winged wets here as opposed to Soft Hackle Wets.

I’ve tied up soooo many, but most of my tying is usually in the smaller sizes. For the most part size 12 and smaller, down to a size 18 or so.

I remember a post by Andy B. a while ago where Andy mentioned tying traditional winged wets in, what I thought was a very large size. Don’t remember how big.

Andy, or any other Wet Fly guy or gal reading for that matter.
What I want to know is just how large to go. I realize I can go as large as I like, but not so sure a trout will cosy up to a 2/0 caohman wet. Within reason, an effective fishable wet fly, what do you guys tie at the large end of the scale, 8, 6? Dare I say larger?

Time to start up the tying vise once again.
-Yaf

2

You’re right, there really are a suprising number of us!

My bread and butter is usually the #10 to #18 size range. I go bigger for early and late season bass all the time, but rarely go lower. I just haven’t seen a lot of them in the local fly shops, so I figure there’s a reason. I should probably experiment though, because my #18 soft-hackles and the few #20s I tie do really well on the smallest streams I fish.

3

Yep. I tie traditional wets mostly in sizes 8, 10, and 12. I use the 8s and 10s more for bream fishing. The 12s I like to use on Georgia wild trout.

Robert B. McCorquodale
Sebring, FL

“Flip a fly”

4

Yaffle,

While I typically don’t fish ‘traditional’ wet flies all that frequently, I do nonetheless fish them on occassion. I believe the size wets that Andy mentioned were size 6. That is also about the best size for display flies.

Allan

5

Hi Yaffle:

I am just getting back into the forums and seen this post. Far as tying and fishing Taditional winged wet flies let me provide you some input.

SHOW FLIES:

Shows Flies are all tied on Mustad 3399 Size 6 hooks. The reason for this is this hook has a deeper sproat bend then it’s modern counter part the Mustad 3906. The 3399 hook is the closest thing to the hook that Bergman used that are pictured in Ray’s book Trout.

Fishing Flies:

Wet flies that I tie to fish with are tied on the Mustad 3906. Why, because the Mustad 3399 is not as strong of a hook and when debarbing can at times break. Also seen them break on a good rock snag as well. Now let’s talk about sizes to fish these Traditional winged wets. I fish mainly with size 6 and 8. Rarely do I need to go smaller. When needing to go smaller I will not go further than a size 12. So if a size 10 does not do the trick and a size 12 will. Rarely have I ever had the need to fish wet fly’s with a size 10 or 12. Now one last differance that I do to my Traditional winged wets that I fish with, instead of tying in a beard, I tye in full collar like a soft hackle. I use a nice Whiting Hen Cape in the color needed that the pattern calls for. I have been very sucessful with size 6 & 8 hook sizes. Like I said previously there are times I do need to drop down a tad smaller and a size 10 or 12 is the limit. For the past two years in the Catskills, New Jersey and PA I have caught fish from 23 inches down to 4 inches. It is quie a site to see a 4 inch rainbow that has attempted to eat a size 6 hook. I do smash down all the barbs on my fishing flies. I know that some people here will argue that a size 6 or 8 is to big and will not catch fish. My Mentor Don Bastian knows that these size flies work great and so do I. Size 14 and below to me is just not needed. Just my two cents worth.

                   Andy B

[This message has been edited by Andy B (edited 28 October 2005).]

6

Size 12’s & 14’s are the standard size I use
on the classic wets !!!

7

Sorry forgot to mention that my 3rd annual wet fly swap is under way with only seven slots left open. Any wet fly tyers who would like to join now is the time.

                  Andy B
8

Thanks everyone for the prompt replies!

This is the information I was looking for.

Andy, I’ll be tying them larger this coming winter, as big as size 6.

I have fished more soft hackles than winged wets and have 1/2 of a fly box just for them. Maybe now, I’ll make the other half all Traditional Wet Flies instead of Nymphs. I’ll have to leave a little room for P.T.'s and H.E.'s though.

-Yaf

[This message has been edited by Yaffle (edited 28 October 2005).]

9

Yaffle,

You might want to check this fly and hook size chart as well:
[url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/hooksizetype.html:39fd7]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/hooksizetype.html[/url:39fd7]

Cheers,
Richard
Plano TX

10

Hi Richard,

Another Long Time No See. That chart is great. Looks like I’ve been tying the proper sizes ( or at least the most popular) for my wet flies. Almost 99 percent of the time, I tie my wets on a size 10 or 12, and very occasionally a 14. I think Andy started tying the size 6’s and 8’s, in particular, because of being such a Bergman fan, and, they probably make a better show fly. But when I first met him, I thought his flies were a little large for general pupose fishing. He may disagree, but I still think a size 6 is a little large for your average stream trout.

Later, RW

“We fish for pleasure; I for mine, you for yours.” -James Leisenring on fishing the wet fly-

[This message has been edited by Royal Wulff (edited 28 October 2005).]

11

I’m not a fan of the number 6 wet fly for today’s trout. Maybe the brookies of yesteryear, maybe bass, maybe bluegill, I don’t know. Andy catches fish on them, and I’m not doubting it. But in Europe, where they still fish wet flies all the time for trout, the average size sold has gone from a number 12 to 14, according to a very reputable professional tier over there. The flies are getting smaller overall, not larger. But those number 6s are fun to tie and display, that’s for sure, and Andy’s flies are works of art. If any #6 could catch a trout, it would be Andy’s. Good to see you back posting.
Eric

12

If you look at the old Herters catalogues and the Old E.J Hillies you will see a ton of wet flies sold in size 6 & 8. Yes there were the smaller sizes as well but it was very common to buy a size 6 or 8 Scarlet Ibis or Yellow Sally or March brown. I can not talk for over seas flies and there sizes. I can only talk about the USA and all my own experiences as well. I have had to many good days fishing and catching a very good amount of fish on these size wet flies. Todays Trout have proven to be no different then the Trout of the old days. I’ll fish a size 6 or 8 wet fly in the Catskills any day and catch a good amount of fish. Due to my experiences and also reading Bergman and then seeing E.J Hillies and Herters Catalogues I will not change ways unless the fish start telling me so. Today’s fish take these flies in size 6 & 8 very willingly. I have had to much success fishing these large size flies to be told other wise. I have had my share of being skunked on stream but it was due to the pattern I was using and my presentation. To me all my field trials and fishing experiences has shown me differently. I fish the Bergman flies exclusively and have proven patterns out to when they work and weather conditions. I have a ton more work to do and patterns to fish with, but I ask how many of you go out and do this. This has been an educational experience for me as well as a feeling what it was like back in the days of old making the same discoveries. R.W and I were disussing about a wet fly called the Professor this past Memorial day. I told him I was now fishing a fly called the Blue Professor that truly has outfished the Professor. If I remeber R.W you told me that this fly would not be as affective or as reliable. Well this year the Blue Professor has truly earned it’s keep and deserves to be added to the fly box and given a try before fishing the professor. The point to further add was all I fished this fly was in size 6 and really taken a lot of fish on the Beaverkill and Willowemoc and on my home water the Ken Lockwood Gorge. Also to fish these larger Flies I use a intermediate sinking line. This made all the differance in catching fish or getting skunked. On this subject I will end in saying to each his own, but please don’t tell me these flies are to big to catch fish now a days.

[This message has been edited by Andy B (edited 28 October 2005).]

13

Hey Guys! Long time no see! Ha!
I got an e-mail from “mantis” the other day, said I should jump in here and offer my two cents. So here I am!

Been off all summer. Well, not off…but prostate cancer surgery on June 20, six weeks recovery and a follow-up PSA test on Sept. 20 which BTW was < 0.1 where it should be after the plumbing has been removed. ;-D My cancer was localized so looks like it’s history!
Spent the summer recuperating, doing chores related to remodeling at home, used over 1-1/2 gallon of polyurethane - new hardwood floors, ceramic tile in kitchen. I did all the trim moldings, casings, new doors, etc.

On the wet flies… I tied & fished sizes #6 through #14 from the time I started in 1964. All locally in my PA streams. All sizes worked well.
Now, for tying at shows, and teaching in classes, the size #6 is what I use. I agree with Andy B. There is nothing wrong with fishing a #6 wet fly. A lot of guys think it’s too big, but remember, we’re not talking about a 4xl bugger hook, or a 3xl nymph hook. A winged wet fly tied on a standard length hook makes a fly about 1-1/4" in length. Snack food for even 10" trout.
I have a 1936 Weber Catalog. The standard sizes of wet flies sold were #6 through #12. Other sizes by special order.

Size #8 could be used if one is concened about hook size injuring fish. But, on another topic, I believe more well-meaning flyfishers inadvertently harm trout by playing them too long (too light of a tippet, drag set too light, etc., or by handling them carelessly or keeping them out of the water too long for photos) than what are injured by hooks.

As far as how well wet flies work? Here’s one quick true story. Two friends of mine hooked over 100 trout in one day, on the Bighorn River in August of 2002 on #6 wet flies, gaudy patterns in fact. I have photos of these trout with the Neverwas, Rich Widow (in my DVD incidentally), Wilderness, and Richardson in their jaws.
Same scenario repeated one year later by friends of mine fishing during a hosted trip by well-known fly fishing guides over Labor Day weekend 2003. My customers out-fished six other boats in the party - on the Bighorn - with the same four - “large,” “gaudy”, wet fly patterns listed above.

Wet flies still work. No longer sold for a wide variety of reasons, but they still work!!

Good 2 B Back!

Don B.

14

Hi Donnie, Welcome back. Will be seeing you in short order at the shows.
Glad you are doing well. Me too! Every year we seem to lose a couple of old friends…You know about Hank. I also read on here and got a call from Bud that Andre P had lost his battle with cancer…We are lucky guys Donnie… Lucky guys…lets hope it stays that way!

15

I am usually nothing more then a “peeper” at these fishing boards but do enjoy the information you folks offer.

I justed wanted to weight in on the question of hook size for wet flies. Fished the waters in Yellowstone Park for 4 days last week in search of those “Spawner Browns” coming out of Hebgen Lake into the river. While we did not catch an over abundance of fish we did get our “fair share” of decent size fish which brings me to my point about hook size. We fished #6, #8, and #10 soft hackle wets and nobody that we encountered had any better catch rate. What makes this truly signifient is the ease of fishing, and tying, the soft hackle provides. No weigthed “buggers” and no “nymphing rigs”, that seem to be the norm in what I can only call “cumbersome fumbling”.

If we start with the tying one finds that they only need a hook, thread (I use floss) and a partridge feather. Start to finish, a two minute tie. As for casting the fly, what could be easier then an unweighted fly casted on a floating line, across-dead drift-swing and strip? Size seems to make a difference and #6 to #10’s worked the best for us. On some of the local smaller creeks I will sometimes go to a size 12 but smaller then that does not appear to work nearly as well.

Just my two cents worth on a type of fly (wets) I have enjoyed coming back to after many years of “neglect”.

Al

Manhattan, Montana

[This message has been edited by Bandy (edited 02 November 2005).]

16

Hi Bandy…glad you posted. Jump right in anytime and welcome!

17

Yaffle,

I fish my wets in size 6 to 14 in all the Pa streams I fish. They work great for Steelhead and Salmon to ,I use them in 6’s and 8’s.

Wet

18

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“The Future’s Bright The Future’s Wet Fly”
Tight Lines

[This message has been edited by Alan the Highlander (edited 08 November 2005).]