What is the standard distance from the base of of the reel seat to the first stripping guide. I’m building a 9ft four piece rod for my wife and the guide comes out right at the junction of the first ferrule. Should I go above the ferrule, or below it?
Thanks, TT.
There’s no real standard as to exactly the distance from the butt. The measurements are usually taken from the tip of the rod and the distance from the reel to the first stripper can be played with a bit to accommodate the persons arm length that the rod is being built for. Short arms (kids) I move the stripper closer to the seat/grip. But normally the first stripper will end up right around 30-32" from the butt of the rod most times. If the stripper is falling right at the junction of the ferrule then move it forward up onto the female ferule. It is always better to put a guide directly on a ferrule rather than a inch or two behind one.
Steve
TT,
Double check your measurements. Most 4pc 9’ rods I have built have the stripper coming out about 3-4" above the first ferrule. That is about 78" from the tip or, as Steve says, 30" or so from the butt. Where did you come up with the guide spacing?
To truly custom fit this rod to your wife, have her hold the rod with the rod holding hand at her hip with the rod straight out. Then have her reach across with the other hand to the rod and out to where she can reach on the rod comfortably, as if she was going to strip line in. That is where the stripper goes. I would almost bet money that is somewhere right close to Steve’s number and above the first joint.
Thanks guys,
I moved the guide up to the first female ferrule. It’s a surprise for her, so I won’t be able to measure it with her holding it, but it should work with the guide on the female ferrule.
I got my guide spacing from the rodbuildingtutorial website that one of you sent me a link to in an earlier post. The ferrule is right at the 30 inch mark, so I moved it up about an inch.
Thanks so much,
TT.
That should work pretty good for her TT. Unless she’s got really short arms/reach I think you should be okay with 31".
Steve
Just doing some quick math, if the first ferrule is at 30" and it is a 4 piece rod, would that not make it 120" rod(4x30") or a 10’ rod. Is the base section longer than the rest? If it is a 9’ rod measure back 78" from the tip and see where that lands just to check placement. Most 4 piece rods are a little over 28" so that when seated are close to being 27" at the center of the joining ferrule. When you installed the reel seat and cork, how far past the butt of the rod did you set the back part of the reel seat?
The placement in relation to the joint didn’t seem right to me for a 9’ rod, either.
A common error is to not keep track of the lengths of the rod sections on the finished rod - that is if you want to consider it to be so. Coming from Bamboo rodmaking, I’m obsessed that the various sectons of the finished rod should always be the same length. I’ve noticed often that with carbon fiber rods, even industrially wrapped ones, the butt section is a little longer than the rest of the sections - be it two piece, three piece or four piece. I always mount the stripping guide at an arms lenght just as suggested correctly above. I also agree that there is an error with the math somewhere!!!
Well, I got 10 guides with the kit, including the 2 stripping guides. My rod measures 108 3/4 inches long, I entered the info into the guide spacing guide, and marked everything where it said to mark it. It came out that the first stripping guide came out just in front of the ferrule. So, after Steve’s suggestion, I moved it up an inch or two. The first stripping guide is about 27 inches from the base of the rod blank. I don’t know how much further I’ll put the reel seat out from the end of the rod, any suggestions? I was just going to make it just about flush.
TT.
I’ll open by admitting I know nothing about the art or science behind guide placement, but this thread made me think. Being a beginner at this game I’ve used the available charts and sometimes string a blank up with guides taped in place just to see how it bends. All the charts I’ve seen put the Stripper around 77" from the tip (plus/minus an inch), which should be around 31" from the butt. Individual guide positions vary slightly, but they all seem to end up within an inch or so of one another.
You’re suggesting placing your Stripper at 27" from the base, or 81 3/4" from the tip, which is almost 5 " away from that which, rightly or wrongly, I’ve believed to be pretty standard. Spreading 5 " among the remaining 9 guides wouldn’t seem difficult, but as the charts often show individual guide positions to 1/8th inch increments, I assume (yes, I know what that means) small movements must be pretty significant.
My question is, is this going to make any real difference to the handling or performance of the rod? I know this isn’t an exact science, but just how inexact is it?
Just curious, Cliff
TT,
If you are using the Guide Calculator program, you can set the distance from teh butt for the first stripper as shown here.
Since you do not know the appropriate spot to put it as the rod is supposed to be a surprise, I would place it at 30" Too far out is better than too close.
The photo gives you the appropriate guide placement for a 9’ 5w with the stripper set at 30" from the butt. If you hit at a ferrule, move the guide to the female side of the ferrule as mentioned before.
As for the guide sizes, I would use a #12 stripper then, 4-3-2-2-2-2-2-2-2. I think this was addressed in another thread.
The Guide Calculator can be obtained free here.
http://www.farnorthrodsmiths.com/Downloads/GuideCalculator.msi
This Is likely the math behind the ‘calculator’.
The following formula came from Art Scheck’s book: Fly Rod Building Made Easy, and is how Art calculates the guides spacing for any length rod with any given number of guides for a custom fit to the rod owner. This formula insures that starting at the first guide; each guide is exponentially further apart. If you remember basic algebra it’s simple.
D = TG + (TG + X) + (TG + 2X) + (TG + 3X) + (TG + 4X) + (TG + 5X) + (TG + 5X) + (TG + 6X) + (TG + 7X) + (TG + 8X) + (TG + 9X)
The following is the work up of guide spacing I came up with for a 9’ 4 piece rod. Reach is the distance from the butt of the rod to the first stripping guide. A 30" reach is comfortable to me but if you have longer or shorter arms adjust this number to suit. 28" to 32" is the general range for most people. The reasoning is, if you drop the line (while stripping it back in) and it’s hanging from the first stripper guide, you have to “Reach” for it. This is assuming the rod butt is still against your waist, or directly in front you. If you pull the rod back to your side to bring the hanging line to you, well that"s a topic in itself. You’ll need to consider a fighting butt if applicable as this can possibly add inches to the total length of the rod, thus affecting the reach by that much.
Example: 9’ 4pc rod with 10 guides (plus tip top)
Guide1 = G1, Guide2 = G2, etc.
Rod Length (L) = 109" (my 9 foot blank was actually 109")
Reach (R) = 30"
Distance (tip top to stripper guide) (D) = (L-R) 79"
Guides (G) = 10
Tip to G1 (TG) = 4.5"
-TG is an arbitrary number usually between 3 and 5 inches. Shorter (7’) rods might look better with a 3" or 3.5" starting point and a 9’ or 10’ rod might be better with a 4" or 5" starting point. Reduce the number on a longer rod if you want an extra guide. Adjust this number +/- if a guide falls on a ferrule, then start over. An inch difference at Guide-1 can mean several inches at the second stripper (or next to the last guide toward the butt end).
Lets plug in the number:
TG x G = 45
D = 4.5 + (4.5 + X) + (4.5 + 2X) + (4.5 + 3X) + (4.5 + 4X) + (4.5 + 5X) + (4.5 + 6X) + (4.5 + 7X) + (4.5 + 8X) + (4.5 + 9X)
Basic Algebra, just “do the math”
D = (4.5 * 10) + (45X)
D = 45 + 45X
79 = 45 + 45X
79 - 45 = (45 - 45) + 45X
34 = 45X
(34 / 45) X
X = .755
Round to Convert to
Nearest 1/8" fraction
G1 = TG = 4.5 4.5 4 1/2
G2 = TG + X = 9.75 9.75 9 3/4
G3 = TG + G2 + 2X = 15.76 15.75 15 3/4
G4 = TG + G3 + 3X = 22.52 22.5 22 1/2
G5 = TG + G4 + 4X = 30.04 30 30
G6 = TG + G5 + 5X = 38.31 38.375 38 3/4
G7 = TG + G6 + 6X = 47.34 47.375 47 3/4
G8 = TG + G7 + 7X = 57.12 57.125 57 1/8
G9 = TG + G8 + 8X = 67.66 67.625 67 5/8
G10 = TG + G9 + 9X = 78.95 79 79
Thanks for all the help. After installing the reel seat, the first stripping guide is exactly 28" from the butt of the rod. I think this will be perfect for her, as she’s a bit shorter than I am.
I really appreciate everyone’s input. I’ll get some pics up as soon as the second coat of flex coat dries.
TT.
You do realize that you are giving her a tool with which she can whip you into shape?
Kevin, Kevin, Kevin…By the time a fly angler gets to building his or her own rods (let alone building rods as gifts) we are all WAY beyond that even being remotely possible.
Then why is my wife still trying?
She’s already whipping me into shape, I’m getting rounder every day, lol.
TT.
And Round is a shape!
Because you’ve taken rod building from a hobby to beyond obsession perhaps? Just sayin’
But it’s payin’ the bills right now. Barely, but it’s payin’ the bills. 