I was wondering if there is any merit to the idea of putting spinning rod guides on a fly rod. I saw some pictures of what I believe was a fly rod made by Great Bay rods and it looks like they have spinning rod guides on them; furthermore I read a comment by a fly fisherman saying he could cast 90 ft with a rod made by that company whereas he couldn’t get past 70 feet with is Z-Axis rod. In addition I have an Orvis Helios 8 wt that has much larger stripping guides than any of my other rods and I can cast further, easier with it.
So I’d like to know what would happen to my fly rod if I put spinning rod guides on it. Would I be able to cast further only to see accuracy go to pot or would I make it so heavy it would wear me out or would some other bad things happen?
cycler68;
I see you are from IA. Why would you want to cast 90’? Most flyfishing in the Midwest is under 40’.
Being able to cast 90’ is not a bad thing, just not neccesary most of the time.
I do not believe the guides have much to do with the distance. If I take my Heddon bamboo out I can get most of the line out but who wants to fight a fish that far from the end of the rod? The guides on this old Heddon rod are small.
ALso, sometimes I fish a short ultralight graphite spinning rod with a fly reel and line.
The old fly rods had very small guides, since the fly lines were pretty thin (silk lines) the larger guides came about with the creation of plastic fly lines. Some fly lines, like the Cortland Sylk, are thinner, so will run through a ‘normal’ guide better since they don’t rub on the inside of the guide as much as a fatter line. Keep in mind the finish on the line will also affect how well it ‘flies’ - hard finish flies better than soft.
If the guides are ‘too big’ you will have ‘line-slap’ and cast shorter.
My first thought on this was that its going to slow the rod down by adding dead weight to the blank—so the recoil of the rod has to overcome the additional weight of the guides before it can impart any action on the line. Unless the blank was engineered (larger diameter or thicker wall) to overcome the the weight of the heavier guides , my thought is , the rod will come to its overloaded condition sooner
Not sure really what guides you plan to try. But I use undersized singlefoot spinning rod guides on my rods I build. I’m even wondering if I can make a guide out of a 1.5mm tippet ring. <grin>
Gemrod
What he said!
Besides Jim (JC) another quite knowledgeable fellow and authority on rod building, Tom Morgan formally of Winston feels exactly the same way. As a result the guides he uses on his new company’s rods are a tad smaller than what you may see elsewhere.
I like using single foot ceramic ring fly guides on my fly rods. I looked at Great Bay’s saltwater rods on their website and it appears that is what they use on them. They aren’t as large as a normal spinning guide, and they aren’t as heavy, either. I use #6 rings for my running guides most times. If you look at the Batson website (from the FAOL sponsor page), you can see that style of guide there. Look at the F style of guides.
In my experience, the single foot ceramic guides do 2 things for you. They keep the line off of the rod, and they are slicker than wire, so between the 2, I feel they shoot line better. The downside is that there is a minimal weight penalty. I personally don’t think it is a significant amount, but there are some who feel that it is. It’s all personal preference, but everything I build anymore uses them.
I think you guys and gals answered my question quite well. I’m interested in trying spinning rod guides not just so I can fish 90 ft away, strike detection and accuracy would be big issues for me out there, but so normal casts of 20 - 40 ft take less effort. The softer and easier I can cast the better I like it as I fly fished enough last year that I had some discomfort in my shoulder and arm.
ol’blue, I have a generic 7 wt rod that I would like to try ceramic guides on. I was wondering if it would be worth it to have the old guides removed and new ones put on or would I be further ahead to buy and blank and have a new rod made.
First and foremost, if the rod casts well for you now and you really like it, I wouldn’t mess with it. “Don’t fix what ain’t broken” If you are talking about 20-40 foot casts, chances are you aren’t shooting enough for those guides to make a difference. If you don’t like how it casts, ceramic guides probably aren’t your answer. And they most likely won’t help out your shoulder or arm. So I would say no to the new guides, unless you want to do it as practice for building rods. In that case, go for it.
If you want to try them out, build a kit for yourself to get another rod that you “need.” My initial reaction is that you should probably pick out a line weight that want for fishing, and try to help yourself out with the whole shoulder/arm thing by cutting out weight more than smooth shooting. And you can use a rig that is a line weight or 2 smaller and/or shorter to ease up on fatigue. But knowing your fishing situation might get you some better advice. You fishing salt for fresh? What weight/length? Species? etc.
ol’ blue
I guess I won’t be replacing all the guides on my 7 wt then. I actually am pretty satisfied with the way this rod casts but then I’m very curious about what would happen if I put an oversized stripper guide on it. I’d rather perform an experiment like this on my 7wt than on one of my other rods since it is a cheap rod and I know it pretty well so I’d be able to tell pretty well just what happened. Right now I think the biggest effect would be it would shoot line better and not much else.
As far as my arm and shoulder go I think most of that was due to faulty casting form which I am working to correct. So far this year I haven’t had and issues with it and I aim to keep it that way.
In that case, I’d say go for it. You can always cut the old ones off, tie on the new ones, and test cast it before you put finish on. That way you can see the difference in shooting, but if you don’t like it, it would be easy to put the old guides back on. Play around with it. It will only cost a set of guides and some time.