We have some very knowledgeable people on this board that I would like to encourage to do a start to finish article on furling leaders. I know that I am asking a lot. I’ve been reading old threads here and on other boards for a few weeks and am ready to start asking some questions.
It’s no surprise to you that have been doing this a while but I’m finding out that there are many ways to skin this cat. The jig itself has so many variations that it is making my head spin. The peg spacing is all over the place too. No one standardizes peg size either, I have seen 1/2, 3/4 and 1" pegs used most often. What material to use to make the leaders themselves varies, but I will use what I have. Have a couple of 1/4 pound spools of Ande’ Tournament green fishing line already in the collection.
Do I need to make these things? No, but this deviation from my normal fishing is a very inexpensive experiment. I bought a 1"X6"X8’ board, some peg material, cup hooks, a spring clamp and away we go.
I probably should just go buy tapered leaders but want a diversion right now in my life so I am playing with these crazy leaders. I have a wonder thread based leader in a Hog Creek design that started this whole thing about me considering making my own. When this is all done I will either be thanking Kaboom1 for planting the seed or constantly saying inapropriate things about the man, it’s his fault.
This is a venting post, but I should actually start asking a couple of questions. I will start with two. What length jig do you find most flexible. I bought the 8’ length but am considering taking it back and buying a 10’ one. Truth is that I usually fish a 9’ tapered leader most of the time and sometimes will take something like a 9’3X and add enough 4X tippet to it to make a 12 footer but usually no longer. I still might be able to get away with the 8’ length, I just knew that I didn’t want the 5 foot butt and mid sections for me.
Second question is what size pegs? I know the 1" peg will add length to a formula that was developed with 1/2" pegs. I’ll shut up now and listen.
Rick;
Let me first address the Peg Size. The only reason for large pegs (eg. 3/4") is to help you pass the spool through when laying up the legs and tying them togather. My good friend WarrenP will sometimes lay out a new pattern using wire brads, but only for a couple.
As to board length. I used 3/4’ aliminum “C” channel and window latches to make a 5 pc. board that would make up to 9’ leaders but store away in a work bench drawer.
By the way, if you need a knit picker for making the Shorb Loops send me your mailing addy as I have about 8 left from a big score a couple of months ago.
Thanks for the offer of a knit picker Jack. Bought a $2.99 one from JoAnn fabrics at 50% off on Friday, so $1.49 was a good deal.
I was looking on furledleaders.co.uk and saw a reference to some boards that have some kind of T channel where one could move the pegs easily. I have 3/4" diameter peg material and 1" peg material. I bought T nuts and hanger bolts to use for the pegs right now but really like the idea of being able to move the pegs anyplace at any time. You wouldn’t have a picture of your board would you?
There is more valuable info on ‘furledleaders.co.uk’ than one can digest in a month’s time! Karel Gol of the Netherlands has created an XL spreadsheet that addresses most, if not all, of your questions. It is found under “Setups and Techniques” at “My Info in One File”. As I am one of two individuals on this side ‘of the pond’ who helped him develope these tables, I will be happy to answer any questions, as will Karel. His spreadsheets are based on Steven McGarthwaite’s 'Big Furled Leader Formula". Karel’s last addition to the tables provides information on how many threads are required of a given thread ‘type’ to make a leader for a specific line weight that has the same mass as a comparable single-strand leader (knotted or knotless) made of mono. We have been working towards this end for the past year.
In recent correspondence with Steven, he mentioned that his next big task, relative to furled leaders, was to arrive at a furled leader with a butt section equivalent to one of mono for each line weight. I mentioned this forum, which he was unaware of, and Karel’s tables. Stevens’ last note to me indicated that we may have solved his problem for him, based on a quick look at the tables. He acknowledged that he was going to have to study them to be sure.
If you will PM me, I will send photos of my new board. I used aluminum ‘T’ track rather than drilling holes, which gives me the capability to make leaders from 4 ft to 9 ft. My furler is driven by a sewing machine motor, whose speed I can control with a rheostat (light dimmer switch), and incorporates a mini micro-switch that turns the thing off when the desired length has been reached, both for twisting the legs and the actual furling.
Welcome to the “Furling Club”!
aged sage
PS: I am puzzled by your inability to register with 'furledleaders.co.uk; will see what I can find out and let you know.
You post links you have been to. There are several threads on FAOL icw furled leaders. Perhaps you have read them. Perhaps not. Also there is a thread about a furled leader swap.
You might want to purchase Kathy Scott’s dvd on making furled leaders. I use her techniques and have felt no need to visit the website in UK. I prefer her method.
I did finally get registered on the other site. Where you type in the question, I think I needed to use upper and lower case instead of all lower case and it worked for me so that was my problem and not the site’s issues. Yes, there is a ton of stuff out there on that site about furling and no, I haven’t completed my research on that site or very old posts on this site. I guess the first furled leader that I saw was one done by Kathy Scott doing a presentation at the Great Waters show, maybe 4 years ago now.
I keep seeing only one or two photos of boards used over and over. One of the best drawings out there that I have found was on this site posted by our own Jack Hise in this thread: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/showthread.php?35653-Furled-leader-length&highlight=furled Don’t know if Jack made those drawings but the software that was used for those drawings made it much easier for a beginner to see what was really going on than many that I have seen.
I will start out just using a hand drill for my motor and very well might encorporate Kathy’s use of a cork for holding pins. It’s looks very easy and effective. I have no plans for a gear box and a motor driven device at this point, but am still very interested in seeing your board Aged Sage.
Now for a question. If you go to this link: http://www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tips/furled/leaderboard.gif you will see the board set up for 8, 10 and 12 foot leaders and in the description section he specifically says: “Measurements shown at left are for 10’ leaders (furled portion only). So how does the longest leg which is only 88’ and reduced 10% which results in about 79” make a 10’ butt and mid section which is 120" long?
I suspect you’ve seen these already…this is just a different picture…I don’t have a storage problem so they are in one section but can be done in separate sections.
I found the peg board one to be cheapest…and easiest to put together.
My interpretation of the linked information is that the final leader lengths ( 8’, 10’, and 12’ ) include a tippet long enough to go from the “furled portion only” to the final length, e.g. 79" to 120" includes 41" of tippet.
Ducksterman, I have not seen either one of those anywhere before. Do you have a link on their construction?
John, I thought the same as you did until I read the quote that said that these lengths were for the furled sections only. Maybe I am overthinking this, that has never happened to me before.
Clay, here’s a couple of threads from the UK board that should help you…you will recognize mine…note I have since added the tape measures and drilled holes down the middle.
Keep in mind that some of us have made modifications to how we apply tension…your idea of starting with a hand drill is a good one…good way to get your feet wet.
Has Kathy Scott come up with a formula for each line weight that tells you precisely how many strands of what type thread are required to make a furled leader that has the same mass in the butt section as that found for tapered or knotted mono leaders, and included it in her video? I think not. Or formulas and charts that enable you to determine precisely how much weight one needs to use for maximum tension required to get maximum twist? I doubt it. (I presume you are familiar with the many threads that are available that work perfectly well for furled leaders; both nylon and polyester, and that there is a vary complete table on this forum that lists over 100 different threads,and their physical attributes, that can be used for furling leaders; and some of them are locally available at major fabric shops, and are generally much cheaper than the ‘fly shop’ stuff.) This is just a small sampling of what is to be found on the ‘uk’ board. I have yet to find anything else nearly as informative as what is to be found on this forum. You may have no interest in such things relative to furled leaders but others of us do. Therefore, I respectfully submit that your rather negative comment about this forum is both irrelevant, unnecessary, and contributes nothing to the furtherance of furling leaders; especially for beginners. Moreover, who died and anointed Kathy Scott high priestess of leader furling before passing on? And I ask this with no disrespect to her or her contributions.
Thanks for everyone’s comments on this thread trying to help me out understand this stuff that is totally foriegn to me. I very well understand that there are many different levels of this furling stuff and for a guy that hasn’t even made one leader yet, I have a long way to go. As Ducksterman suggested, using the hand drill is not a bad way to get your feet wet. Thanks for the comments. Just trying to make a flexable board so I don’t have to make another one next week, but wanting something simple. Thanks for the links as well.
As I told Aged Sage in a pm when looking on the other site and using the definitions page, it used the term “board” so I did a search under “board” to use the right terminology and found few pictures. Now I found more pictures and better discussions using the term “jig”. Your reference to the: “Less than ultra-jig” and the other thread about “Ultra Jig” were very helpful.
Thanks for the great info in the direct email Aged Sage.
Rick;
Here is a photo of the “C” channel and Window Latch. This allows me to take the board down for storage.
It is hard to get the latch to really “tighten” up so I do have a spacer between the 2 sections.
Cool Jack, nice way to do a two piece board that travels well. I kept thinking of T channel and called around today to try and find some but no luck with anything that anyone had in stock today that I could find so I threw together my first board. Will post some pictures of my simple fixed board later. Just wanted to get something so I could try a couple of the leaders. I think of this as I did buying fly rods. It’s not my last board, just my NEXT board. I have two houses anyhow, so one will stay at the weekend place and one at home. Or I can furl with my wife, kind of sounds weird doesn’t it. Maybe I could ask her if she is up to furling tonight and just see what kind of looks I get, but that’s another story. I have to go try one of these on the new board before I loose all of the light. Will post crazy questions later I’m sure.
Before, I was furling leaders in 2 seperate sections which is just fine & its how several websites show to do. I bought Kathy’s cd on furling leaders which shows a different way of making the leader all in 1 single section instead of 2 sepperates. I like her way better; cause its faster & easier.
Well the first attempt I missed a connection and the thing all came apart in one great disasterous ball of mono. Actually the first leg came out fine but missed the connection on the second leg. The second attempt was furled fine, still have to do the shorb loops at the ends but the instructions for that are nicely detailed. I made the 10’ one from this link: http://www.bamboorodmaking.com/leaderboard.gif I’m having a little trouble, yeah right - more like I’m not following very well at all, the written instructions. Anyone have a good link with a pictorial of how to wrap one of these with 5 pegs?
Enough furling for one day, I have spent a huge amount of time on this project today. I need a beer.
