Does anyone have a spacing arrangement for a furling jig to be able to make a 7’ furled leader? I would like to try making some a little longer than the spacing I have currently use (a little less than 6’). Also, any recommendations on where to obtain the rings to put on the tippet end? Thanks for the help.
CF51
Clearfork;
28/33/33. Now I’m sure that has you very confused? If so let me know, somewhere in here I have some diagrams. On my 9’ rods all I use are 7’ furled leaders. Hauled in a 20" Walleye out of one of my favorite Trout holes yesterday!!
J Stockard (a sponsor) has the best deal on tippet rings.
Jack;
Thanks for the reply, and you are right I’m confused. Are the pegs the same distance on both sides or ? A diagram would be great. How long are your tippets on that 7’ leader? Thanks again.
Couldn’t you just start at 8’ starting length and place the pegs proportionally to what you do when you start for your 6’ finished leader ??
Jack’s measurements come out just short of 8’, if I’m reading them right he is saying 94". I am curious about that set up. It would result in proportions of 30% butt section, 35% mid section, and 35% tip section. That strikes me as a bit light in the butt and somewhat overextended in the tip, especially after adding tippet.
Just wondering if this is a standard proportion for you, Jack, for the various leaders you do. And how you arrived at these proportions, and if you have tried other set ups ??
John
If you make your start and end loops 1/2 the distance between pegs 1 & 2 you will have a 12/10/8/6 taper.
lets see if this helps. This will make a 7’ leader.
When using a leader made from 4# test mono or fluoro I’ll use up to 6’ of tippet.
at least 4’ of tippet with a thread leader.
J Stockard happens to have free shipping going on right now…
clearfork51:
To answer your first question, here are two different peg spacings for 7 foot 3-step furled leaders. The first is for a 55% slope, and the peg spacings alternate left-right-left-etc., starting with the first peg on the left side. Both are based on a 10% reduction in length with furling. Measurements are in inches. For the 55% one, the peg positions are: 38-63-80-92. The second one is for one with a 60% slope: 34-59-78-92. There are two pegs on the left side and one on the right side; looking from butt end towards the tippet end. The tippet end peg is at 92 inches to allow for the 10% reduction.
The percentages reflect the weight reduction at each step-down from that of the previous section; i.e., the first step-down section weighs either 55% or 60% of the butt section, and so on for the remainder of the leader.
Why not put a Shorb knot in each end, and dispense with the little metal ring on the tip end? The knot is very easy to do. It does require a Knit Picxker, available wherever fabrics and sewing supplies are sold, and are about $2.00 ea. There is minimal anecdotal evidence that the Shorb Knot is stronger than the metal ring. Here is an article on making furled leaders that has a step-by-step instructions, including some very clear photos, of how to make a Shorb Knot: www.peninsulaflyfishers.org/Tackle/furled_leader/furled-leader.html
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Aged
With the numbers you gave and assuming the 92" measurement is the last or center peg, wouldn’t that set up leave you with a 4 step leader?
Brad
This is my fourth attempt at answering your question Kaboom1, The absurd feature of a “token” for replying time on this forum keeps eating my lunch!
They are three-step leaders. Consider the furling hooks and the tip peg to be ‘goal lines’. The number of pegs between the ‘goal lines’ determines how many steps there are. There are three such pegs in both of my examples. Hope this explains it for you. If not, PM me.
Cheers!
aged sage,
Hate it when that happens - especially after writing a long, detailed answer. I find copying the answer to the clipboard works. When you log on again after the system throws you off, then just paste your comment into a new reply window.
CM:
Thanks for the tip. Will give it a try the next time it happens. I don’t understand why this forum has such a feature, when the others I participate in don’t. Doesn’t make sense; but then, I guess I am not supposed to comprehend such things!
Does this help?
There are instructions for 8, 10 & 12 ft furled sections.
http://www.bamboorodmaking.com/html/making_furled_leaders.html
Silver Creek:
FYI, a fellow furler in Holland has developed a spreadsheet that one can put the basics into and with a click of the mouse can instantaneously generate the peg positions for leaders with any % slope, number of step-downs, and length your heart could ever desire to make. It is based on Steven McGarthwaite’s Big Furled Leader Formula. Steven did furlers a very big favor with the development of his formula. And Karel Gol in Holland took it to the next level when he used
Steven’s formula to develop his spread sheet.
The links you provided are good, but are restricted to their specific stated length leaders. They are also based on a very cumbersome furling technique. For example, to do a 12 foot leader you need to have a clear working area of 24 feet to be able to make one based on the technique used. The ‘technology’ has come a long way since these articles were published. They are a very important source of basic information and I definitely recommend reading them to anyone wanting to get started making furled leaders.
To help further the the state of the art in furling, here is the link to a Forum on the subject that was started about 5 years ago by an Englishman, and which contains a wealth of information on the subject. It is: www.furledleaders.co.uk
Cheers,
Frank
aged
I just find it much easier to replace tippets with a tip ring on the end of my furled leaders than my old way of shorb looping both ends. I find no saving in time making a shorb loop or fitting a tip ring to a leader; I am equally slow at both. YMMV.
mcsteff
mcsteff:
Guess that’s why we all do things differently. Personally, the way I make my leaders, it would be terribly inconvenient to put a ring on, other than by the “handclasp” knot. I can do a Shorb Knot in the toppet end in about the same time I could “handclasp” a little ring. I don’t have to worry about dropping the ring and then wasting time trying to find it! To my way of thinking, it should be just as easy to do a loop-to-loop connection to a Shorb loop as to a littler metal ring.
Enjoy your leaders!
Cheers,
Frank
A shorbs loop in the line end does not bother me. A shorbs loop in the tippet end does. On a 10-8-6 taper you only have six strands of material…and perhaps you are using 2lb mono. The shorbs loop will divide the tippet end in half an you cut the strength of the holding power of the tippet end in half. Thus I use a tippet ring and do a loop to loop with it. It is not as pretty as a ring slid down one side of the leader before furling…but I have more confidence in it’s power.
Clay, you have read enough to get pretty confused by now I would think. Do yourself a big favor and just buy Kathy Scott’s dvd. Then you will understand the whole process without all the confusing stuff you have read. It is only $15 and only about 19 minutes long. If you follow her dvd you can easily figure out that her dimensions are 30% for the butt section, 35% for the next section and 35% for the last section.
Her method is totally different than what you see on the UK board…coincidentally ran by a fellow with my name…but it is not my board. I don’t go there. Totally happy with Kathy Scott’s instructions. I shrink much further than her 10% however and I do not use cork or push pins. You can create your own board after watching her dvd.
I did the calculations for all furled leaders from 2’ to 6.5’ for an 8’ board…in 1/2’ steps. So I can make a 2’ furled leader (which would probably just be a butt section) or a 2.5’ or a 3’ or a 3.5’ all the way to 6.5’. I put two 1x6x8 boards together and drilled through both boards for all the holes with a drill press. Then I reversed the two boards back to back so none of the holes matched up. That way each hole has a positive stop then I place a 5" piece of graphite from an arrow in it for a peg. I then used wood screws to attach the two boards together securely. Local archery range makes arrows. Gave me a handful of graphite pieces left over from making arrows. I like them because the thread slides off them easily. I painted one side of the board black and the other side white. Just so when working with light thread I can use the black side. When working with dark thread I use the white side.
You can make your own test beginner board sooooooo easy. Watch Kathy’s dvd. Then just take an 8’ 1x4 and use 2" finishing nails. Just hammer them in. Leave 1.5" sticking up to use. Use the dimensions on Kathy’s board. You will only be able to make that length of leader but it is a very extremely easy way to make a quick board and do one.
I interpret some things differently. I think the 10’ furled section only is exactly what it says. It is 120" of furled leader. NOt with any tippet attached. You attach tippet to the end of your furled leader.
Example:
you want a 6’ leader which would be 72". Times 10% is 7.2". Round that off to 7.25" So you are going to shink up or loose 7.25". Add that to the 72" and you now have 79.25". Add 1/2" loss for each shorbs loop you do. So if using a tippet ring on one end only add 1/2" for the loss of the shorbs loop on the fly line end of the leader. So now you need 72.25" + .5" = 79.75" total end to end length to make a six foot leader.
79.75 x 30% = 23.925 so round off to 24"
79.75 x 35% = 27.9125 so round that off to 28"
so peg placement would be 24" to first peg on right side of board, and 28" to next peg on left side of board, and another 28" from there to last peg in the center of the board. This totals 80" but loose approx 8" and end up with a 6’ furled leader. Once you watch kathy’s video what I just posted will make sense.
gemrod:
You have the thread count in a Shorb loop all wrong! In Step 1 of making the loop, you pull the standing leg back through the center of the three-strand-each-side terminal loop (between each leg in the standing part), which does divided the six threads into three on each side of the standing leg. In Step 2 you pull the six-thread terminal loop-leg back through the standing leg, leaving three threads on each side of the loop leg on each side of the six-strand standing leg. When everything is pulled tight, you wind up with a figure “8” knot consisting of 12 strands of thread in the knot itself and all six original threads of the terminal segment making up the loop per se. This is equivalent to doubling the tippet end back on itself and bonding the the six-threaded sides together to make the loop.Thus, the leader has not lost any threads, and therefore strength, at either end in the making of the Shorb loop. If you slip a ring over one leg before you twist is when you will have half of the threads on one side of the ring and the other half on the opposite side; thus dividing the terminal threads as you suggest for the Shorb loop. The ‘handclasp’ knot joining the ring to the tippet end would produce a knot equivalent in strength to the Shorb loop. If the Shorb knot at the tippet end is properly sized, it should be just as easy to loop-to-loop to a Shorb loop as it is to a small metal ring at that end.
I also fail to see any real significance to the loss of 1", or more, of leader in the making of a couple of Shorb loops, one on each end of the leader. I dare say that darned few, if any among us, who made their own knotted leaders came any closer than this to our intended leader length. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that anyone who makes (made) their own knotted tapered leaders, or used knot-less tapered leaders, ever actually measured them to determine how long they actually were to begin with, and definitely did (do) not do so when adding a new tippet. Therefore, IMHO, to bring this up is an exercise in jousting at windmills, and only adds chaos to confusion for the beginner. This is leader making; NOT rocket design. To go down that rabbit trail leads one directly into accounting for the extra leader length that the radii of the pegs themselves add to the overall leader length, and how best to compensate for it.
I don’t understand your profoundly negative attitude towards the UK forum, as you keep selling it short. In fact, there is information there on more than one way to furl, not just one as you claim. Jim Williams presents his way, but several others, many from this side of the pond, also discuss their methods and provide photos of their boards and how they do things. And none of them claim their method to be better than any of the others. I completely rebuilt my board shortly after the first of the year and included a number of improvements to it that I gleaned from the posts of others on that site. My original was almost a direct copy of Skip Shorb’s board. When he saw my new board in February, he commented quite favorably on the changes that I had incorporated, and indicated that he may rebuild his and incorporate some of the features of mine, all of which, to be redundant, came from the UK board. Personally, I feel very strongly that anyone doing furling, except perhaps for a few, should go to this forum and study the various postings rather thoroughly. I particularly recommend this to ALL furling beginners. Sorry, but I view that forum quite differently than you do.
As a college freshman in the mid-'50’s, one of my profs had a motto on his office wall that has withstood the test of time with me. It read: “As long as you are green, you continue to grow. As soon as you ripen, you begin to rot!” As a mid-septaugenarian, I like to think I am still green and am continuing to grow! I ain’t ready to start rotting just yet! Learning all I can from others is very important to my continued growth; and staying green.
aged sage