I was looking at www.JimsFlyCo.com website and his really cool Whiting Hackle Color Wall. I have heard others ask about dyed hackle versus natural hackle.
My question is: Do you find Whiting’s dry fly dyed hackle as good as Whiting’s natural rooster hackles for tying dry flies?
Here is Jim’s cool Whiting Hackle Color Wall: Whiting Hackle Color Wall
I have numerous dyed Whiting hackle along with others and find no difference in them. Look at Jim’s dyed hen he has some great colors there also.
I have seen Jim’s wall in person and what he shows is not but a quarter of what he has.
Personally, I can’t tell the difference either, but I hear some guys want to know if it is natural or dyed.
Your are right, Jim’s hackle selection is absolutely amazing. I have never seen a fly shop with so many hackle capes and saddles in stock!!
Yes, there is a difference…the dyed hackle is a more consistent color than natural in my experience. The dyed brown Whiting saddles I have, for example, are uniform in their coloration, whereas my natural brown saddles range from brown to coachman brown on the same skin. Other than that, they pretty much fish the same. There are of course certain colors that aren’t commercially available in dyed hackle, most notably the brownish dun colors. Just a matter of preference, more so than anything else.
Actually there can be quite a difference in the quality of SOME dyed hackle vs the natural.
Specifically black hackle. Natural black hackle tends to be softer than the white hackle which has been dyed black. ( Also you will get a darker more uniform black with the dyed feathers.) So if you are looking for dry fly hackle, stick to the dyed version. It is easy to tell the difference by looking at the skin side.
Jim, are you saying that dyed hackle produces stiffer barbels than natural?
So how do you tell the difference between dyed and natural? (It is not stated on the back of the cape or on the cardboard.)
The downside to dying vs natural that I have found is the effect it has on the quill. Some get more brittle than the natural.
I have no doubt your examples of natural black are softer, but I have lots of both and do not find dyed consistently stiffer than natural. I would actually say it is the reverse, but we are both looking at sample sets too small to make such general statements.
art
What I am saying is that natural black hackle tends to have much softer fibers than natural white hackle. The dying has no effect on the stiffness of the fibers. It is a function of the bird genetics. That is why the dyed black (from white stock) has stiffer fibers. This is not only my observation but the word from the man himself, Tom Whiting. We had this specific conversation at one of the FFF conclaves a couple of years ago.
Along these same lines of bird genetics, brown hackle always tends to have stiffer fibers than grizzly hackle.
I have never noted any adverse effects caused by dying.
The dying has no effect on the stiffness of the hackle fibers.
Dyed capes and saddle patches are easy to identify. Look at the skin side and if it is any color other than skin color (sort of a yellowish-tan), then it has been dyed. Chickens do not have olive, gray, or other colored skin.
There are some who dye while the cape is still on the bird. Charlie Collins told me he has done that in the past.
Cool Thread:cool:
The darker the natural color, the greater chance that the hackle will be “soft” compared to lighter shades. This is why top quality Medium Grey and Dark Grey dun capes are so difficult to come by. Coachman Brown is another difficult shade to get in high quality. Conversely pure white tends to be a bit soft as well.
Jim
Interesting, then it is just a matter of genetic tendencies, not an actual difference in stock/breed? Seems to make an even stronger case for dyed materials, especially in the darker colors.
What Makes a Hackle Good?
By Al Campbell
December 17th, 2001
What makes a hackle a good hackle? By that I mean, what is the right size and shape of a good hackle feather for fly tying? If you don’t exactly know the answer to that question, you’re not alone. The answer depends on what you want to tie and how the hackle is going to be used.
First you need to ask yourself is what you want to tie. Are you tying an Adams? What size is your fly going to be? It might surprise you to discover that many of the hackle growers concentrate most of their genetic efforts on sizes most of us rarely use or need. The trick here is how they convince us that their “popular sizes” are just what we need.
I sell thousands of dozens of flies where I work in the span of one summer. The most popular dry fly size is 14 followed by 16. It doesn’t matter a lot what the pattern is; most of our dry fly sales are in those two sizes. In fact, my size 14 sales exceed the combined sales of all the other sizes except 16. I closely watch this trend to insure that I order the right flies for the coming year. It works well, and I rarely have a huge mess of flies in the wrong sizes, to carry over to the next year.
So, why do the two best known, major hackle growers try so hard to sell us hackles that tie sizes 18 and 20? Sure, I tie a lot of small sizes and so do others, but I also tie a lot of flies in the 14 and 16 sizes. That being the case, why do I need that $150 micro, super duper, dry fly saddle that ties sizes 18 and 20 with ease? Actually, I don’t.
For the last few months, I’ve been tying a few flies with necks and saddles from Conranch. I’m quite impressed. I haven’t found a hackle feather that wraps easier than the feathers off their necks and saddles. The necks have hackles small enough to tie flies I can’t see with my over-forty eyes anymore. The saddles are just right for size 14 dries, so I’ll get to use them up fast. Ok, relatively fast; I haven’t had a lot of time at the vise recently, but that will change in the months ahead.
This isn’t a product review; that will come a little later. However, if you are looking for that perfect neck or saddle for Christmas, you need to click on Conranch from the sponsor’s page. Be sure to describe the color and size you need. Dennis is a fly tier, so he will be able to select the perfect saddle or neck to suit your needs.
This isn’t an advertisement either. It’s just a tip from a fly tier to you. As usual, if I find something that works well, you’ll be the first to hear about it. ~ AC
Great article. Al was 100% right. Fortunately sizes 14 and 16 are the predominate sizes in most genetic capes and saddles. On the otherhand there is a strong trend towards smaller flies, especially on the hard hit tail waters. After the umpteenth thousand size 14 or 16 dry fly drifting overhead trout seem to shy away from them. A size 20 22, or 24 fly means the difference from standing in a river waving a stick or catching a few fish. Then again there is a lot of requests for large “Variant” size hackle, sizes 4,6,8. Thankfully there are solutions for all the sizes.