I am having a problem with casting a double fly set up. I am constantly get all knotted up. I do not have this problem with a single never a knot in my leader but it seems after about four cast I have knotted myself up it never fails. What am I doing wrong.
Thanks for your advice
Jason
Hello Justice League, now please don’t take this as smart alecky ok? I too used to have the ‘double fly rig ties me in knots’ syndrome so I quit doing that and the problem went away.
Ok, you’re not laughing…oh, oh…
Ok, here comes the point, I was trying to ‘cast’ the double when I should have been lobbing. Here’s what fixed the prob and presumably you’re nymphing. Instead of aerializing the line I’d just flip line, leader and flies back upstream at the end of the drift.
I found that I could stay in the zone a lot more and 15 to 20 feet of line was not a problem to lob. Add leader, tippet and double rig and you’ll have quite a range to cover the zone with. Hope this helps !
Cheers,
MontanaMoose
We use a double fly set up all the time for trout. For a dry dropper setup tie the tippet to the dry. Tie a 1x finer tippet to the hook of the dry fly with 14’'to18" to the dropper. The dropper fly should unweighted and smaller than the dry. We use midges a lot for droppers but you can use anything that is prevalent in your waters.
For nymphs use the same basic setup except the top nymph should be the heaviest (and usually the biggest) the second nymph is unweighted or very small & lightly weighted.
I fish nymphs most of the time unless the fish are looking up so I also keep false casts to a minimum.
It is very effiecient. Doubles do happen but is is rare that you land both fish
I don’t agree with the unweighted dropper being necessary. I often fish a weighted nymph like a copper john or a beadhead caddis pupa under an elk hair caddis or other buoyant dry fly. Or two different size nymphs, sometimes with the larger below, but more often larger above as stated.
I’ve found that if my cast gets sloppy, I will indeed get the bird’s nest from you know where. So I concentrate on keeping the cast crisp and up and then usually don’t have problems. I’ll also use that ‘belgian wind cast’ which is a kind of redirected cast where you cast elliptically. I think they have a video or at least article on Fly Fisherman.
I too have the problem with multi fly rigs, buts it’s getting better.
Two things have helped me…
Getting the right ‘balance’ on the flies and tippet length. I went back to some of the articles that had good diagrams of double rigs. I paid special attention to get the fly size, fly weight, tippet sizes and dropper lengths. There are a lot of variables, but if you get it right it works much better.
I changed my casting style. I try to lob the rig more than cast. I also like to use a ‘water drag’ instead of a back cast to load the rod. I just let the current pull a small section of line downsteam until the line is pulled straight behind the rod tip. Then I lob the line forward with a wide open forward cast. I avoid backasting as much as possible, never false cast.
I use a double, sometimes tripple, fly rig in lakes.
Usually a couple of streamers, a streamer and a nymph, two nymphs, etc…
You have to cast them, as you want as much distance as you can get.
Often I’ll use a LARGER fly as the trailing fly. Doesn’t seem to matter a bit. Sometimes the trailing fly is eight inches behind the leading one, sometimes its 36 inches back. Doesn’t seem to change anything. Tend to use pretty much the same size tippet.
It’s timing.
Usually what causes such tangles is rushing the cast.
A smooth casting stroke, properly timed, crisp stops, and you can cast two, three, or seven flies without tangles.
What causes a ‘tangle’ is when one of the flies in the cast catches onto the fly line, leader, another fly, or section of tippet. If the cast is executed properly, this can’t happen. The flies will all be following along in their proper turn, and will roll out to their proper position at the conclusion of the cast. The line shouldn’t cross or touch itself. If it doesn’t, the flies CAN’T tangle.
Buddy
Hi JL,
I think this is one of those situations where practice makes perfect or at least better. When I started fishing two flies regularly, I suffered from a lot of tangles—mind numbing tangles—the kind you just gave up on and just cut both you flies and tip material off and re-rigged all over again. For me the rule is smooth and gentle on the cast. Too much power, applied suddenly, bounced those flies around and caused a big part of my problem. A tailing loop is also the kiss of death with two or more flies; something is going to catch and make a mess. In summary, go with a smooth, fluid motion, open your loop a bit and give up a trying to achieve world-record distance when casting two flies. BTW, you will still get a tangle or two every once in a while. Hope this helps. Don’t give up on the two fly rig. It’s really productive. 8T 
I seldom fish two flies but when I do, I don’t give the fly types or position too much thought but I always use a tippet that is one size heavier on the dropper fly, especially if the dropper is NOT attached to the bend of the hook of the upper fly.
That along with the casting advice offered by the posters above usually keeps things manageable.
Try fishing with as short of leader as possible. This really helped me.
Tim
Hey again JL,
One other quick thought that may help. Instead of holding your rod straight up when you cast double rigs, hold the rod at about 45 degrees (half way between straight up and horizontal to the water). IMHO, this easies the problem of tangles because the top of your loop doesn’t pass over the bottom part of you loop directly. The meeting of the top and bottom of the casting loop is the root of most of my really evil tangles. This seems to help me. 8T
This used to happen to me a lot too. I am not really certain how I fixed it, but I started by using a normal backcast and then a sweeping forward cast (i.e. a big curve to the casting side). It does require some adjustment in aim and learning where the flies will land, but it DEFINITELY saves a lot of headache. (I threw my rod at the bank about 6 times before I figured I ought to find a way to stop the tangles)
I see there are a lot of opinions on this which is what makes the world go round.
The reason we use 1x finer tippet for the dropper is more of a practicallity than helping to keep the tangles out. With heavier tippet on the dropper if the dropper gets snagged on the bottom you lose two flies instead of one.
For indicator nymphing in a stream the practicallity of having the heavier nymph above the dropper is that in this set up both nymphs will be near the bottom and drifting naturally. If you put the lighter nymph above the heavier dropper the upper nymph will be on a taught line between the indicator and and dropper. This cause the upper nymph to not be on the bottom and not drifting naturally.This causes your hits on your top fly to go way down
The exception to this is if you are stripping a wet fly in front of a streamer in slow or still water.
I started using the dropper loop with usually at least one tippet size up off of the knot. I will tie a few knots on the leader at specific intervals so I can I tie a lead dropper in a variety of spots on the leader. If I cant get away with it, I usually stick with a stiffer tippet in as large a size I can go so that the angle of the dropper is as perpendicular as possible to the leader. Anyone else prefer this setup versus tying to the bend?
After going through the tangle frustrations, I agree completely that the technique of casting at an angle is an effective method of decreasing tangles.
This is the traditional method of fishing droppers and in my mind far superior to the ‘truck’n’trailer’ or hopper/dropper that most people fish.
A ‘cast’ of flies with a weighted point fly and two droppers or a point fly, one dropper and a ‘bob’(dry) does not tangle when assembled as setnhooked discribed. In fact, a setup like this with help to turn the leader over.
This is the way my grandfather fished and the way he taught me to fish when I was just a kid.
It’s very effective.
Fun too
Until this year I fished with the 'truck’n’trailer as mentioned in the previous posts. I must give credit to Bruce (WetFlyGuy). He showed me the setup fishing Pine Creek, PA at the PA Fish-In and I have not fished any other tandem setup since. You are lucky dudley, my Grandfather’s best fishing advice was to use a egg bobber to cast a worm a nautical mile. JK he was a great guy, but by no means did this steelworker get involved with what he called “overly fancy fishing.” Fishing at his farm pond for LMB was the first addictive experience I encountered with flyfishing.
Randyflyfisher posted a thread on how rods are built. While bouncing around that very informative web site I came upon this info on fishing droppers: http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/techniques/monahan_seeing_double.aspx
Well worth reading and thanks to Randy.
Tim