Anyone know where I can find a true Cree Cape? I am not looking for a variant or a something that is almost cree, I am looking for the real deal. I do not think Whiting or Metz offers Cree. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Michael
Whiting does off a real cree as does Conranch
I deal with Conranch myself…
Conranch would be my first choice
Whiting and Metz do have true Cree which is a cross of a Coachman Brown with a Grizzly. The yield of Cree is about 10%. I have both Whiting and Metz Cree.
They are almost impossible to get unless you know a shop owner. Whiting used to keep a waiting list for retail customers that wanted Cree but no longer do.
This is Metz Cree from about 15 years ago;
This is a Whiting Cree from 5 years ago. It may look as if it is not cree but it actually is better than the Metz. The brown barring is much deeper in color and the white is whiter.
Bought a Metz #2 cree from Jack Dennis’ shop about 15 years ago. Used a few feathers off of it but wasn’t too impressed with the quality. Got another cree from Charlie Collins a few years back and what a difference; great hackle, nicely marked and the 10 Line was pretty far up the cape; a real pleasure to tie with. Unfortunately, it looks like he doesn’t carry cree any more. Oh well, there’s lots of good grizzly and brown hackle out there.
Regards,
Scott
As has been said on here previously, Denny Conrad, ConRanch Hackle is the best. All cree is not equal nor really cree, see the article here: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/cree.php
Thanks everyone. I am going to look into Collins and conranch and see if I can get a cape from them. I believe Conranch only sells Cred in full skins, can anybody verify this?
The real honest to goodness Cree you have to get over in Europe (Spain). Conranch seems to be the only outlet for the American version of Cree. I have tried many times to drill my friend Tom Mullen who works at Whiting Farms, asking him about any Cree Capes, and if they did have any at all, they are sitting on the stuff. I will ask some of my friends across the pond. The Spanish Cree which is the true stuff is a very interesting Chicken (lays Black Eggs). Very beautiful feathers. The guy who used to run FlyTyingworld.com web site at one time was wanting to get a hold of some of those eggs to raise the True Cree Bird. I don’t think he ever did. I did mention the idea to Tom Mullen, figuring he might pass the idea to Dr. Whiting .
I stood in a flyshop pondering a Metz#1 Cree neck in 1993…and I STILL regret not buying it. But at the time it would have been bought with grocery money. 
I have a Ginger Variant that is a Cree…only one I have found since. It was like Xmas in June and of all places it was in a Cabelas…mixed in with a box of about 15 that was still sitting on the floor to be hung up. I was poking through the box and the clerk came over just as I spotted it. He ws going to tell me I coudn’t look through that box. LOL He looked at it and seemed to want to tell me to put it back. Then when paying for it he admitted he would have taken it and bought it had I not seen it first. It’s a lesser grade…but it’s a Cree.
Would love to have one of Denny’s skins…maybe soon. I do have one of his Cree JV hen skins…great hackle.
The other breeders DO get them…but like has been stated, they rarely if ever see the open market.
For the price, cree often demands, you are much better off using something else. There may still be some deals out there, but the outlandish prices I have heard some people pay for a high quality cree skin (from Whiting) is beyond reason.
Agree 100%; unless you’re tying some fly that has to be historically accurate to the original pattern, or if you have $100+ laying around the house to blow on some pretty rooster feathers, I see no reason to go the extra expense. There has never been I fish I did not catch because I didn’t tie it with a cree hackle (sorry for the triple negative); plenty of other reasons, including my inherent inabilities, but not because of a lack of cree. Considering you can get some fantastic brown & grizzly hackle, plus barred ginger (and some barred creams that look like a washed out cree and look very, very cool) at a fraction of the cost, I’ll leave the cree to the high rollers and suffer with the common colors.
Regards,
Scott
Scott,
I’d like to comment on the 2 points you raised and add one additional comment. First, here’s what you wrote, “…unless you’re tying some fly that has to be historically accurate to the original pattern, or if you have $100+ laying around the house to blow on some pretty rooster feathers, I see no reason to go the extra expense.”
Okay, let’s limit this to the U.S. On the latter point, I’d like to know, from anyone, if there has been any reasonably known “historical” fly pattern that was specifically and purposely tyed with ‘cree hackle’. I very much doubt that. On your former comment, there’s no doubt that a ‘cree’ neck or skin is as pretty as a rooster’s feathers can be and looks great in a frame. Otherwise I completely agree.
Now an observation of my own. Now notwithstanding the advantage of using one feather instead of two, a ‘cree’ hackled dry fly does not give the same visual as a mix of brown and grizzly. The hackle of a fly tyed with this combination has a more distinct look. Plus, you can alter the depth of the overall hackle color, either lighter or darker by the number of wraps with the brown or the grizzly. Or, the tyer may even put one color in front of the other for yet another effect.
Allan
Denny can…give him a call…509.999.7472
Brad
The ‘true’ cree is a color form of the Spanish Penedeseca chicken. There are four different colors of this breed, which was not “standardized” until 1946. The recognized colors are: Black; Partridge; Crele (‘cree’), and Wheaten, and they lay very dark brown eggs; not black. They have some other atypical characteristics of no importance to flytiers.
DazWah,
Okay, maybe I awoke on the wrong side of the bed but you write quite a broad reaching comment: “Whiting have the best hackle on the market bar none, to be honest the Pro Grade Hebert miner is better than most other grade 1 or 2’s.” Whiting has excellent hackle, however, it is “best” only under certain conditions. Also, Miner hackle is likewise an excellent line of hackle. However, the use of the phrases “bar none” and “better than most other grade 1 or 2s” is pure BS. How many other ‘others’ have you seen or tyed with? How about Conranch , Collins or Keogh? I’ll take either a Collins or Conranch ‘dun’ over a Whiting dyed or natural dun neck anyday. I’ll take a Collins #1 or #2 barred ginger or even a grizzly over a Whiting product of the same grade.
Maybe you should learn what’s available before making such wide-sweeping and erroneous remarks.
Allan
Allan…
DazWah lives in Australia; you know, that place ‘down-under’ that no one gives a damn about! He quite likely has never heard of Keough, etc., let alone have them available in his homeland. Also, he did qualify his comments by saying “…in my opinion…”
Otherwise, I endorse your comments 100%. Unfortunately, he is not the only one to make such asinine claims on this forum. Others would do well to pay close attention to your post.
Cheers!
Frank
Hi Frank,
Yes, I’ve learned that DazWah lives down under. And yes, I know he was only giving his “personal opinion”. However, isn’t everything about fly fishing and fly tying just someone’s opinion? Everything is. If I were to say that Regal or HMH or Renzetti or LAW or another vise is the ‘best’ it is of course just my opinion. If I were to say a particular rod, reel, line, fly style or pattern, knot, or you name it was the best, it would of course just be my opinion. Actually, I would not say something ‘is the best’. I’d most likely say that something ‘is my preference’ based on (blah, blah, blah, etc.). However, for him to make the 2 all encompassing, far reaching and dogmatic comments as he did is pure BS.
Allan
It’s all just opinion…unless you ask me for mine. HEH HEH HEH…
As I was told while serving in the RAF…
“When I want your opnion… I’ll give it to you.”
Cheers,
A.