Ha! Not a Renzetti nor a Peak mentioned???? I appreciate all the good comments. I have been told that Thompson has gone out of business. So.....I wouldn't want to buy one of their's. I think the point was a decent vice you get good at is what you will like....and the Patriot is a good choice. I think I would like the true rotary. I think it was Al Beatty wrap chenille and hackle by rotating the vice. I like that idea. I don't think I can do that with the Patriot. However, it sure is good and strong. I think I will like it. It's just, well....uh....you know....a boy and his toys......

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Plain old Jim, I'm Plain...and I'm old.